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Missile Nerf: Too much or Too Little?
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Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-12-05 03:07:34 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:

Also, you probably don't have to knock off 3-6km off of range due to acceleration and flight path of missiles anymore. They stated they reworked the programming for missile flight. Apparenty the displayed range will pretty much be equal to the in-game performance of the missile.


Apparently seems to be the key word.



Popup displays 53km (down from 85km)
shoot at rat at >50km no damage
approach and started to do damage at <48km


25% reduction should have left me with a range of 60ish km, what i get is >37.5% reduction
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#22 - 2012-12-05 03:19:45 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Lili Lu wrote:

Also, you probably don't have to knock off 3-6km off of range due to acceleration and flight path of missiles anymore. They stated they reworked the programming for missile flight. Apparenty the displayed range will pretty much be equal to the in-game performance of the missile.


Apparently seems to be the key word.



Popup displays 53km (down from 85km)
shoot at rat at >50km no damage
approach and started to do damage at <48km


25% reduction should have left me with a range of 60ish km, what i get is >37.5% reduction

The rat is also moving. So if you shot at a POS 50 km away that would work but well...

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2012-12-05 03:30:25 UTC
My heart bleeds for the people angry over not getting battleship range and firepower from a cruiser.
RangerGord
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#24 - 2012-12-05 03:34:26 UTC
Not sure what exact numbers the OP was looking at, but I did the calculations with my Nighthawk and my Tengu, it comes out to 40% range and 30% dmg nerf... so seems to me it went a little overboard. (T2 launchers and T2 missiles)

Either that or CCP doesn't want anyone using T2 Heavy Missiles anymore.

Yes I can get 'most' of the range back by switching to faction missiles, but i'm still 15-20% down in dmg for double to quadruple the cost in ammo.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-12-05 03:34:29 UTC
The damage nerf is felt for a l;ow skilled drake L3 runner. The salvo definately went down and seem to be much more inconsistant. Not sure where this comes from but some ship really do require more hits to go boom. The few L3 I did were not that much more painfull. Might change depending on which one I get I guess.
Phi Nupe
Sunstar Business Ventures Inc.
#26 - 2012-12-05 03:40:13 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
My heart bleeds for the people angry over not getting battleship range and firepower from a cruiser.


Battleship range from any medium weapon system was indeed something that needed to be brought closer in line with the other three races medium weapon systems.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-12-05 03:52:19 UTC
This makes me SO glad I trained Amarr and beams and am currently working on Gallente and hybrids.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
stoicfaux
#28 - 2012-12-05 03:57:05 UTC
Meh, pop in two missile speed rigs and you're back up to <92km range with Fury (or 81.4km with one speed rig.) Slap on a rigor and/or a TP to compensate. On the down side, the raw DPS drops from 784 to 701, an 11% drop.

By comparison a Rage HAM Tengu with 2x Speed II rigs is looking at <35.6km of range. Blech.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Arya Greywolf
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-12-05 04:17:10 UTC
BinaryData wrote:


Massive nerf to the fitting of the tengu, 20% range nerf? 20% damage nerf? I lost 90 dps (WITH Officer mods), and I lost over 45km range.

So the question that I'm wondering is, why is the tengu so far behind now? Did the nerf it too hard, enough or too little? Frankly, I've got damn near max tengu skills, and I lost this much? I mean, really CCP, do you not test ****?



You're seriously overstating this nerf. You need to understand that heavy missiles range and damage to begin with was above and beyond any other cruiser based class weapon. The range on the missiles was nerfed yes, but when HM hit, they hit for full damage at any "in range" distance. I think you need to go back to "EFT Warrioring" and realize this when you start talking about the Loki or Legion, or anyone other medium weapon.

20% nerf is absolutely overstating what really happened. HM damage needed to be toned down just a bit to fit with their great range. It is actually more like ~10% damage nerf. Read over your numbers again. I just did my drake numbers and before patch my ratting drake with 7 HML IIs and 4 BCU IIs did ~547 dps. With the new patch it sits at around ~502 dps. For the range on these weapons this is hardly a rough nerf and it was necessary.

Let me tell you that the nerf was so inconsequential that major coalitions and alliances will continue to use blob drakes because they are still that effective.

In addition, you're missing a huge BUFF to HAMs. They are a great close range weapon now. Please go read Fozzie's devblogs about the changes because I'm too lazy to go find them for you. The changes were well thought out and necessary.

Also Lili Lu's reply was basically "/thread."
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-12-05 04:29:50 UTC
RangerGord wrote:
Not sure what exact numbers the OP was looking at, but I did the calculations with my Nighthawk and my Tengu, it comes out to 40% range and 30% dmg nerf... so seems to me it went a little overboard. (T2 launchers and T2 missiles)

Either that or CCP doesn't want anyone using T2 Heavy Missiles anymore.

Yes I can get 'most' of the range back by switching to faction missiles, but i'm still 15-20% down in dmg for double to quadruple the cost in ammo.

25% nerf is not a global number. Is is the approximate nerf to T1 and by extension faction missiles. Fury has an additional 25% reduction from that new range. The raw DPS nerf ended up being abit less than 10% but the applied damage being lowered due to increased explosion radius and reduced explosion velocity.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-12-05 04:37:21 UTC
BinaryData wrote:

Regardless if you can constantly hit something at 70km or farther, you're still hitting a target, and dealing damage, while missiles just "fizzle" out.
r.



Full damage out to max range, then fizzle out.

Compared to:

Full damage out to optimal range, then reduced or no damage out to first falloff, then greatly reduced damage or no damage out to second falloff (most weapons will be hitting normal missile range around here) then absurdly reduced damage or most likely no damage out to third falloff, then fizzle out.

Your arguments don't work, sorry. No one who actually flies turret ships competently considers poking distance to mean anything.
Dark Long
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-12-05 04:52:21 UTC
now you have some cheese with your wine.

you based that of fury it short range heavy missles is still 66k now to etf fit with short range rail ammo or pro. and tell me they reach that far.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-12-05 05:13:58 UTC
I can't imagine a 20% nerf to Tengu range and dps really makes a player have to stop and think before they decide if the Tengu is the solopwnmobile they want to fly. It'll need a lot more nerf before people stop abusing its insane price vs. utility ratio.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

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Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-12-05 05:55:52 UTC
use javelin HAMs and stop bitching

HMs were way overpowered, also, your in game character's skills suck, a tengu still gets 450 dps with heavy missiles, they only had a 10% damage nerf, so stfu

also, why the hell are you using kaikka's modules, they are worse than faction ballistic controls

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Slavac Stark
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-12-05 07:36:54 UTC
I'm a fairly low skilled drake pilot.

Using HML's, my range went from 58 to 43 and my damage took a pretty damn big hit.

I used to hit battleship targets for 1400, now I'm doing good to hit a max of 800.

All in all it's going to make me have to train into a different ship/weapon type and is pretty frustrating for a new pilot who focused almost entirely on missiles for running PVE.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-12-05 07:50:20 UTC
Hitting cruisers I went from 1000-1200 to anywhere from 550 to 1100. I was expecting the lower damage but the variation seems quite large. Any possible explanation?
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-12-05 22:34:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
baltec1 wrote:
My heart bleeds for the people angry over not getting battleship range and firepower from a cruiser.



Cruisers Sell for about 8-10m ..
Battleships sell for about 150-175m ..
T3 Hulls sell for 450m-750m ..

Why is it suddenly unreasonable to expect performance that scales with cost ?
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#38 - 2012-12-05 22:36:17 UTC
Xpaulusx wrote:
Lets face it, Between the HM & ECM nerf, Caldari got curb stomped with this patch, im still watching Falcon prices tank in jita.

Aw boo hoo, overpowered mechanics are not as effective.

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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-12-05 22:37:49 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
show me a legion/loki fit that can put out more DPS at 70km than a tengu and I'll unsub all my accounts and give you all my stuff.

PS: your tengu fit is HORRIBLE.



Pretty much this.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#40 - 2012-12-05 22:43:06 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
My heart bleeds for the people angry over not getting battleship range and firepower from a cruiser.



Cruisers Sell for about 8-10m ..
Battleships sell for about 150-175m ..
T3 Hulls sell for 450m-750m ..

Why is it suddenly unreasonable to expect performance that scales with cost ?

Mmm, tell me more about titans.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
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