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Eurogamer: CCP reveals master plan to make famously impenetrable MMO accessible

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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#81 - 2012-12-05 21:49:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Malcanis wrote:
Apparently I have forgotten the old proverb about teaching a pig to dance.

My bad.



That would actually be 'making a purse from a sow's ear".

You are just making up colloquialisms at this point.

Next thing you know, we'll be Dancing About Architecture.

EDIT: Make that "A silk purse from a sow's ear" just to be correct.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#82 - 2012-12-05 22:17:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Apparently I have forgotten the old proverb about teaching a pig to dance.

My bad.



That would actually be 'making a purse from a sow's ear".

You are just making up colloquialisms at this point.

Next thing you know, we'll be Dancing About Architecture.

EDIT: Make that "A silk purse from a sow's ear" just to be correct.


Actually he's not,

"Stop trying to teach the pig to dance, it's a waste of your time and it irritates the pig", it's a bastardisation of a Robert Heinlein quote

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#83 - 2012-12-05 22:40:38 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I must be doing something horribly wrong because all the corps I've been in were composed of people who pretty much looked out for each other.

Some more competently than others, but eh.

So. What have I been doing wrong these last 6 years?

People good at EVE? What?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#84 - 2012-12-05 22:58:20 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Apparently I have forgotten the old proverb about teaching a pig to dance.

My bad.



That would actually be 'making a purse from a sow's ear".

You are just making up colloquialisms at this point.

Next thing you know, we'll be Dancing About Architecture.

EDIT: Make that "A silk purse from a sow's ear" just to be correct.


Actually he's not,

"Stop trying to teach the pig to dance, it's a waste of your time and it irritates the pig", it's a bastardisation of a Robert Heinlein quote


Pigs just want to eat, not dance.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#85 - 2012-12-05 23:32:40 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Gosh, so many words, and literally zero substance. All it does is hinting that amazing stuff, which they haven't decided on yet, but which will be amazing, may or may not be coming in 2013. Might as well have said "Coming Soon!" and left it at that.

And PS: Until they get rid of the skill training system, so that it takes a newbie 6 months to get core skills, the game will remain inaccessible. The only thing they can do is for those 6 months give a newbie something else to do that is fun and non-ship-related, which is where WiS comes in.


I would never have started playing if EVE had the standard grinding system. And it didn't take "6 months to get core skills" even when we still had to train Learning Skills. I was out having a fine old time in 0.0 when I was 3 months in, and I didn't know or care about "core skills".

Goonswarm & TEST have convincingly proven once and forever that you don't need to spend years "preparing for 0.0" in hi-sec. What you need is robust player organisations who recognise that investing in new players is the way to keep those orgs strong and vital. Leaving new players to stagnate for a year or two in hi-sec in the hope that sufficient skillpoints will suddenly transmute them into good players is a terrible ineffective stupid idea. And forcing them to spend that time grinding xp as well will somehow help?

No.

I realise that getting into a different mode of play is challenging for people who've only ever played "race to level cap" MMOs where the object of the game is to maximise numbers on your character sheet, but try and realise that there are other people who aren't obsessed with being "maxed out" before trying to do anything. Freedom from grinding is the second greatest thing about EVE.



I am kind of thinking that the path to opportunity for new players will come from better career paths. There really are few career paths. Presently we have mission/incursion runner, pirate, market bot, gate camper, null renter, killmail addict, miner, griefer, and of course (maybe now) bounty hunter.

Career paths that give players something to actually do instead of something to work towards might be the ticket. So vast is the game that a carrot on the stick is not going to make people get bored to move on an faster than grinding for two years and then get blapped in a gate camp trying to make "the big move" already does now. The so-called end game, if there is one, is a very big let down, only because people individually build up to the concept, no positive result is capable of living up to the expectation.

So I think that more towards a career path with real results instead of drawing "play styles" choices from a general pool of ship and skill choices would further obfuscate tne noob-versus-veteran issue. Admittedly the Goons do have a good handle on activities and roles for noobs, love them or hate them, and have done well with it.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Christ Illusion
Atrocity Vendors
#86 - 2012-12-05 23:36:58 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:


And PS: Until they get rid of the skill training system, so that it takes a newbie 6 months to get core skills, the game will remain inaccessible. The only thing they can do is for those 6 months give a newbie something else to do that is fun and non-ship-related, which is where WiS comes in.


That is more than stupid.

I'm just 3 months old, I have 4,8 million SP, and let's see what I have:

Core skills:

Electronics 5
Electronic Upgrades 5

Engeneering 5

Mechanics 5

Repair systems 4

Gunnery 5

All core gunnery skills, like motion prediction, rapid firing, surgical strike, tray analisys, signature analysis at level 4

I have small blaster spec at lvl 4, so I can use T2 small guns.

And I have specified frigate skill lvl 5, so I can fly Assault Frigates and Black Op frigates too.

Oh, and drones 5, other drone skills at 3 - i can manage T2 drones.


So I can nearly engage all T1 frigates driven by older players than me with chance to win, and I enjoy PVP and FW as well.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#87 - 2012-12-06 01:02:42 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Holy One wrote:
The problem isn't the game has no appeal, its that once you start asking people to pay 120e before they can really play it (a year or so of subs and skill training) it loses that appeal.
Well, the solution to that problem is to report people who spread that kind of nonsense as newbie griefers.

EVE can be played "for real" from day 1. It takes maybe a month worth of skill training before you get a good assortment of tools and skills to build on for some more specialised tasks. The only problem is that the NPC corp chats -- the newbie schools and the newbie chat in particular -- are full of, if you'll pardon my french, connards who fill the poor newbies' heads with idiotic brainvomit such as "train everything to V" or "you can't PvP before 15M SP" or "get a battleship ASAP".

If those 'tards could get a few more punches in their gentleman/lady areas until they shut up, the appeal would become far more readily apparent.

I think the big issue is the idea you need a T2 fit BC or BS to do anything. Those take a while to train and aren't actually needed, but they stil get pushed.

I remember when I started, I missioned in a merlin before moving up to a cormorant for level 2s. I found a good 0.0 corp and managed to crowd source a ferox after maybe a month and a half. fittings were ****, but I had the ship and mamaged to find a niche to fill (In my case, I actually ended up sliding into an indy role doing BPO research rather than a ship combat role, but it was still aas a newbie; I was actually below the minimum SP to join, but they liked my personality).
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#88 - 2012-12-06 01:05:14 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Presently we have mission/incursion runner, pirate, market bot, gate camper, null renter, killmail addict, miner, griefer, and of course (maybe now) bounty hunter.

Hmm, I guess I'm a market bot and null renter.

Wait, when did all market profiteering become market botting?

BEEP BOOP. Selling Hydrogen Isotopes.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Amitious Turkey
10kSubnautic
Warriors of the Blood God
#89 - 2012-12-06 04:13:47 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Presently we have mission/incursion runner, pirate, market bot, gate camper, null renter, killmail addict, miner, griefer, and of course (maybe now) bounty hunter.

Hmm, I guess I'm a market bot and null renter.

Wait, when did all market profiteering become market botting?

BEEP BOOP. Selling Hydrogen Isotopes.


And apparently I'm nothing. I don't even appear on his list Sad

I like to lick things.

Haunting the forums since 03.
bilingi
Grandeur Illusions
#90 - 2012-12-06 04:44:32 UTC
Im waiting to see one of these day old noobs or month old noobs to be useful in PVP? LOL.. So basicly you use them as shields because thats all they are a distraction ... Ah well its always fun to read the forums..















/
Goran Konjich
Krompany
#91 - 2012-12-06 08:32:16 UTC
such a nice thread transformed into something ... ugh.

I'm a diplomat. Sometimes i throw 425mm wide briefcases at enemy. Such is EVE.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#92 - 2012-12-06 08:36:56 UTC
Amitious Turkey wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Presently we have mission/incursion runner, pirate, market bot, gate camper, null renter, killmail addict, miner, griefer, and of course (maybe now) bounty hunter.

Hmm, I guess I'm a market bot and null renter.

Wait, when did all market profiteering become market botting?

BEEP BOOP. Selling Hydrogen Isotopes.


And apparently I'm nothing. I don't even appear on his list Sad



I'm not on it either. Cry

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#93 - 2012-12-06 08:37:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
bilingi wrote:
Im waiting to see one of these day old noobs or month old noobs to be useful in PVP? LOL.. So basicly you use them as shields because thats all they are a distraction ... Ah well its always fun to read the forums..

They do ok as tackle. Then again hey, you can do a lot worse than having ships to fly and Boat to listen to when you're getting into EVE Online: Skill Training edition.

By a week I was jamming people in a blackbird. Pretty fun and apparently it helps mess around with the enemy. By a month I got into a scorpion, for how little we were using them afterwards. Oh well.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#94 - 2012-12-06 11:44:05 UTC
Just to put that matter to rest now that the final numbers are in…
Holy One wrote:
Thats all very well thought out, but the reality is the server pop is peaking at 40k and is down to 25 the day after the expansion.
The day after the patch, the TQ population peaked at 43k users. The last time it was this high on a Wednesday was back in June (incidentally also right after an expansion).
The highest Serenity peak I can see in the charts is some 26k.

The two servers have nowhere near the same active population.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#95 - 2012-12-06 16:07:53 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Apparently I have forgotten the old proverb about teaching a pig to dance.

My bad.



That would actually be 'making a purse from a sow's ear".

You are just making up colloquialisms at this point.

Next thing you know, we'll be Dancing About Architecture.

EDIT: Make that "A silk purse from a sow's ear" just to be correct.


Actually he's not,

"Stop trying to teach the pig to dance, it's a waste of your time and it irritates the pig", it's a bastardisation of a Robert Heinlein quote


Ah. I HAD heard it after all.

But that is not really a true localized American or British colloquilism by any means. It's more akin to the never actually said "Beam me up, Scotty".

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882