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Dev input please on mission agro
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Ubu
Asyla LLC
#1 - 2012-12-05 18:36:09 UTC
Since the patch certain missions seem to give you full room agro upon landing. For example, The Assault and vengeance gives full room agro post patch.

This doesn't seem to be intended. Any word on this?

Thanks.
XxRTEKxX
Drunken Beaver Mining
Gnawthority
#2 - 2012-12-05 19:32:25 UTC
Have you been in any missions, post expansion, where any groups do not aggro? If every mission gets full room aggro now, then it sounds like it is working as intended. The A.I. is now more advanced than before, which means if you're shooting a group of NPC's,their friends near by sshouldn't be ignoring you waiting for their turn. I'm sure that's what the devas will say.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-12-05 19:37:10 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
Steijn wrote:
Could you give a timescale of when missions will be returned to normal? By this I mean that the rooms will go back to the staged aggro instead of full room which started after yesterdays patch. As it is, with the drone nerf, certain missions are simply not worth doing as its almost guaranteed suicide.

Before the moaners start, this is nothing to do with creeping into the 'aggro bubble' either manually or via warping, or via drones doing the same thing, this is a bug that was introduced yesterday.

I don't have any estimates but this has been noticed and is being investigated. Be careful out there.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2272875#post2272875
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#4 - 2012-12-05 19:41:40 UTC
XxRTEKxX wrote:
Have you been in any missions, post expansion, where any groups do not aggro? If every mission gets full room aggro now, then it sounds like it is working as intended. The A.I. is now more advanced than before, which means if you're shooting a group of NPC's,their friends near by sshouldn't be ignoring you waiting for their turn. I'm sure that's what the devas will say.


No it's not.

http://www.eveonline.com/retribution/upgraded-npc-ai/
Quote:

Q) Does this change things like spawns or range activation?
A) No. When the NPC decide to start hating you is still based on the individual mission.



XxRTEKxX
Drunken Beaver Mining
Gnawthority
#5 - 2012-12-05 20:33:26 UTC
They should buff the bounties and buff the rewards, while leaving the A.I. as is. The greater the challenge the better the experience.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#6 - 2012-12-05 20:36:02 UTC
XxRTEKxX wrote:
Have you been in any missions, post expansion, where any groups do not aggro? If every mission gets full room aggro now, then it sounds like it is working as intended. The A.I. is now more advanced than before, which means if you're shooting a group of NPC's,their friends near by sshouldn't be ignoring you waiting for their turn. I'm sure that's what the devas will say.


There are missions where you don't get instant fullroom aggro on entry still. Serp side of Serp/Gurist World's Collide doesn't for example.

It does spawn rather oddly however.


Have noticed this with a few missions,made Serpentis Assault far more challenging than before, was fun but I can't see how the majority of mission runner fits are expected to complete it.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Wolfman SS
4400 EVE
#7 - 2012-12-05 20:58:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Wolfman SS
Im REALLY dissapointed with this change, missioning lv 4 was abit on the boring side before, now its just plain hard.


Level 4 (the old model)

Risk: 3/10
Reward: 5/10
Fun: 2/10


Level 4 (the new model)

Risk: 7/10
Reward: 5/10
Fun: 2/10

Basicly, now its much harder work, for the same pay/same loot + needed isk for new drones here and there, not even a new twist on excitement in terms of loot drops or how to complete it. Its still the same old Blitzing or Grinding.

The system even works against soical missioning. WHY would you punish missioning with a freind or girlfreind with lesser ships?! This is where im butt hurt the most!
Yotah
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2012-12-05 21:49:14 UTC
XxRTEKxX wrote:
Have you been in any missions, post expansion, where any groups do not aggro? If every mission gets full room aggro now, then it sounds like it is working as intended. The A.I. is now more advanced than before, which means if you're shooting a group of NPC's,their friends near by sshouldn't be ignoring you waiting for their turn. I'm sure that's what the devas will say.

The problem is missions were originally balanced for different NPC aggros and not full-room MOBs. Will CCP now rebalance missions to account for full aggro? If you were the suspecious type, you might think the Game Developers purposely made it so player lose more ships to keep the Cash-Plex-Isk Complex lucrative for CCP. Anyone doubt CCP will one day market "special" T2 and T3 ships for real money? I don't.
Yotah
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2012-12-05 21:55:05 UTC
Wolfman SS wrote:
Im REALLY dissapointed with this change, missioning lv 4 was abit on the boring side before, now its just plain hard.


Level 4 (the old model)

Risk: 3/10
Reward: 5/10
Fun: 2/10


Level 4 (the new model)

Risk: 7/10
Reward: 5/10
Fun: 2/10

Basicly, now its much harder work, for the same pay/same loot + needed isk for new drones here and there, not even a new twist on excitement in terms of loot drops or how to complete it. Its still the same old Blitzing or Grinding.

The system even works against soical missioning. WHY would you punish missioning with a freind or girlfreind with lesser ships?! This is where im butt hurt the most!


Let's see now... harder work, more risks, same payout.... And CCP honestly believe this will be more fun for mission runners?
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-12-05 22:03:24 UTC
XxRTEKxX wrote:
They should buff the bounties and buff the rewards, while leaving the A.I. as is. The greater the challenge the better the experience.


More like you need XXM SP in gunnery/missiles and XXm in tank skills + deadspace fit marauder/t3 to have a chance otherwise you are guaranteed to get blown up.
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#11 - 2012-12-05 22:21:15 UTC
If lvl4's are kicking your figurative Ass then the option of lvl3's is always there.
I spent the entire day today running lvl4 in minmatar, gallente, and amarr boats trying to see if any of them are impossible to accomplish. (sorry dont have a caldari toon)
So far I have found that none of them should be AFK'd, none are impossible, some are difficult.

Yes I have elite skills in core defense, core fitting, core tanking as appropriate to the race, and core gunnery/turret control but only Improved for drones. If you dont have these skills trained then you probally should be looking at lvl3 missions and training those skills rather than writing in the forums.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Ubu
Asyla LLC
#12 - 2012-12-06 03:54:43 UTC
goldiiee wrote:
If lvl4's are kicking your figurative Ass then the option of lvl3's is always there.
I spent the entire day today running lvl4 in minmatar, gallente, and amarr boats trying to see if any of them are impossible to accomplish. (sorry dont have a caldari toon)
So far I have found that none of them should be AFK'd, none are impossible, some are difficult.

Yes I have elite skills in core defense, core fitting, core tanking as appropriate to the race, and core gunnery/turret control but only Improved for drones. If you dont have these skills trained then you probally should be looking at lvl3 missions and training those skills rather than writing in the forums.


That's all nice and good but even with your 1337 skillz there are combinations where you will have a good chance of losing your ship. For example, The Assault. Full room on landing. Dampened by 5 elite cruisers at 50-60km, can't target anything to lower incoming DPS. Web'd and scrammed by a large number of frigs. Can't run to make some distance to kill frigs and can't easily use drones as the large number of frigs targets them within seconds of deployement.

Considering mission reward has already recently decreased and these changes greatly increase the risk of losing ships I don't see the point. Many use mission alts to fuel the isk required to PVP. This just cuts into the fun.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#13 - 2012-12-06 07:30:39 UTC
Ubu wrote:
goldiiee wrote:
If lvl4's are kicking your figurative Ass then the option of lvl3's is always there.
I spent the entire day today running lvl4 in minmatar, gallente, and amarr boats trying to see if any of them are impossible to accomplish. (sorry dont have a caldari toon)
So far I have found that none of them should be AFK'd, none are impossible, some are difficult.

Yes I have elite skills in core defense, core fitting, core tanking as appropriate to the race, and core gunnery/turret control but only Improved for drones. If you dont have these skills trained then you probally should be looking at lvl3 missions and training those skills rather than writing in the forums.


That's all nice and good but even with your 1337 skillz there are combinations where you will have a good chance of losing your ship. For example, The Assault. Full room on landing. Dampened by 5 elite cruisers at 50-60km, can't target anything to lower incoming DPS. Web'd and scrammed by a large number of frigs. Can't run to make some distance to kill frigs and can't easily use drones as the large number of frigs targets them within seconds of deployement.


On gate arrival turn away and burn in the complete opposite direction, warp out when the frigates reach 25k from you. Reenter site and lock the frigates before sensordamp ships aggress and e-war you. You won't achieve a complete lock but you sure as heck won't have to wait as long as trying to lock from scratch. Kill frigates with drones (pulling in and reapplying if needed) and web your target. Once both tackle frigates are down, warp out if necessary, otherwise proceed with blowing the hell out of everything.

Worked a charm for me.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.