Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The "increased ease of ganking" is still a myth.

Before the T3s there were BS with the same dps but with insurance payouts, nothing has changed. Except for emergent gameplay.

Yes you had BS's, and now you have a cheaper variation that is quicker to train into and does higher alpha damage



See above

The cost makes a difference regardless of insurance. As what a fitted tornado is what 90mil? a BS goes up to what 150-200mil? Need six or 7 of those thats a difference in savings of about 250-300 mil per a gank going with tornado. Thats more isk risked for the pirates if the drops are too small. Having cheaper ships does let them go for lesser targets or simply increase the rewards as they need less of a drop to merely break even.

Battlecruiser is also a x6 training time as compared to a x8 to BS as you dont need lvl 5 though, you are getting the most bang for your buck and time using the tier 3

As for alpha it does make a difference. Tornado has 8 turret hardpoints no bonus to damage. Tempest has 6 hardpoints and a 5% bonus to damage meaning you can use a tornado at BC I and do more damage than the Tempest at BS I The tornado is also 40mil cheaper about. You could go up to a maelstrom and get the 8 hardpoints and 5% damage bonus getting greater alpha then the tornado, but your looking at a 200+mil investment in a single ship youre going to lose

See Tier 3's have made it cheaper and quicker to set up ganks

i support a hauler / freighter / t2 maybe orca variant hull that hauls around 200km3
offers some fitting options, is possibly mostly shield tank, or Armour tank, and would have the end result of similar or more ehp
than current freighters.

orca hull sans mining foreman and m barge skills would be ideal and easy.

comes with some form of ability to move fitted battle ship(s) has some kind of reduction in sig size per level, or increase in agility / resistance bonuses

so you proved my point that since introduction of tier 3's its essentially cheaper and more efficient to gank



I've mentioned plenty of times in other threads crying for low slots. I'm fine with the current freighters as is. And I argue that current pilots should carry less or use in game mechanics already available to them to defend themselves.
Though having argued that. I also realize that the freighter class was missing a class.
You have standard freighters with large holds. Great for hauling large volumes of inexpensive items. I.E. Minerals
You have the JF which is great for moving around quickly with moderate loads as well as circumventing normal gates via use of its onboard jump drive.
And we have high defense freighters for moving around moderate loads of valuable cargo... Oh wait we don't. have that :p

Most people only need to haul around 2-5 billion something that can be done in multiple trips and beefing up your defenses in the ways your allowed. But a large number of people need to frequently move 10-20billion+ not something that's actually too feasible even with defense. We're missing an armored freighter class


No

haulers already have t2 options. They're blockade runners and cov ops hauler. freighters do not need fitting options. They are not meant to have fitting options. Freighters are actually meant to be escorted thats why they don't have fittings

A transport ship that can move more BS's would be nice, but that's not what this thread is about and the orca ship hanager works fine for moving fitted ships.

Not exactly.

Back before Tier 3 battlecruisers were introduced (last year) the mineral market was quite depressed and everything was cheaper. I remember Typhoons and Armageddons going for about 70 to 80 million a ship. Maelstroms were 110 to 130 mil. And Brutixs went for about 15 to 25 mil a pop.
Add in the fact that you would also receive insurance whenever you lost a ship (regardless if it was to CONCORD or not)... it was actually cheaper back then to gank a freighter.

And... here's the best part... almost as many freighters were dying this time last year as they are dying now.

The real question everyone should be asking is... what has made this such an issue now?

I would love to see a combat frieghter. Something that wouls let fit medium and low slot modules.

I still think the over all need is there. Make a High Sec Freighter that can survive a gank. People who take it else where deserve what they get, but give us a way to move our cargo through "secure" space >.> Or at least with a reasonable chance of success.

Ok ya i did forget to account for past costs a year ago and with insurance payouts it did make it cheaper back then. But then you have to understand that tier 3's have effectively kept the price to gank down. If it would of still been battleships even without insurance. The price would of rose proportionally with everything else. That's what i'm arguing, not that it wasn't cheaper in the past, but with the introduction of Tier 3's it has kept the cost to gank from rising proportionally with everything else. A cheaper alternative for the present time was introduced, that is all i'm saying

And yes while insurance was paid out in the past and mineral prices were down, it was cheaper to gank ships. It was also cheaper to replace freighters a year ago as well. What they've jumped from roughly 800mil to 1.4bil today?

Not really sure whats made this an issue now to be honest, but I personally was just getting massively annoyed by the "give freighters" slots threads and had like 5 of them in one day -.- Which I think is just the worst idea ever. Considering the massive re balancing and overhaul you'd need to do on each freighter since a single lowslot would potentially benefit some freighters far greater then others.
So while putting down those threads of the lowslot ideas and why they shouldnt have them. I also came to the realization that freighter class was missing a class of freighter. That even haulers have their armored variants, but freighters do not.. They have a standard variant and a stealth variant (JF being able to bypass gates) but no armored variant for its size.
For it's size its extremely thin skinned. Which makes sense, it sacrifices all that for sheer cargo room. I'm just pointing out like I said its missing its variation that sacrifices cargo room for protection.


Alright i'll bite training time is negligible fair enough. As for cost past V future. See above for response please^




If you're going by insurance then tornado should be priced for insurance as well. If you're going for price of BS's before tornado's. That's aa mute point as im discussing current prices since introduction of Tier 3

Unless that BS was given to you for cheap or free it's not going to cost only 0-10mil....
Drake cost 50some odd mil, I insure it for 13mil @ 100% Total hull investment now totals 63mil put into it I lose it I get 46mil back from insurance Making the drake essentially costing me 17mil I'd love to know where you're getting your numbers.
Also i'm going off current competitive rates for price to gank



A hisec freighter can survive a gank...if the gankers just didnt bring enough dps Nothing should be ungankable, not even the ship i'm proposing. Your chance of success is directly determined by the value of your load and the amount you took to protect it. Also hisec isnt "secure" space its "protected" space but poorly protected with incompetent police force. But thats just because concord isnt there to hold your hands. You're responsible for your own protection and safety even in hisec

We are going round in circles here bud.

The basic argument was that ganking is easier and some say cheaper, due to tier 3 BC. I think we've shown this is in fact a myth. Mainly due to the fact that insurance was removed from Concord kills, around the same time tier 3 BC were introduced.
It's for this reason Sheynan didn't price the Tornado for insurance, as it would be pointless. No one who now suicide ganks, insures their ship. So that ship and all the fittings are pure loss.

• So training time although a 9 days quicker now, is negligible. So let's say on par.
• Cost of ganking is slightly more expensive now, if you take into account insurance mineral prices at the time we used BS's. But for arguments sake, let's say on par.
• Damage is the same as before, depending upon which ship you used then and now. So again, on par.

This is why we call that easier and cheaper argument, a myth.