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The change to the missiles
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Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#1 - 2012-12-05 13:04:38 UTC
I've been seriously debating to switching to faction missiles to compensate for the range nerf. What are your thoughts on the best new sleeper killer? (Note I was using furry before)
Shenra Twrin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-12-05 13:14:56 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
I've been seriously debating to switching to faction missiles to compensate for the range nerf. What are your thoughts on the best new sleeper killer? (Note I was using furry before)



why new best killer ?

Dreads + webloki > all
Viaana
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-12-05 14:08:47 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
I've been seriously debating to switching to faction missiles to compensate for the range nerf. What are your thoughts on the best new sleeper killer? (Note I was using furry before)



We were thinking the same...
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#4 - 2012-12-05 14:14:12 UTC
The only valid use of a tengu is as an off grid booster for a maelstrom of doom. Hawk of doom is also acceptable but that just seems a little overkill.Lol.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Goodluvins
Shadowlight Society
#5 - 2012-12-05 15:35:48 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
I've been seriously debating to switching to faction missiles to compensate for the range nerf. What are your thoughts on the best new sleeper killer? (Note I was using furry before)


So....what exactly were you using a furry for? Bear If furries don't work, try using pedos (lol) Agh, it's too early for this..
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#6 - 2012-12-05 15:44:16 UTC
If it's for home sites, try using a battleship? Or perhaps use HAMs?
Malception
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-12-05 16:00:19 UTC
Goodluvins beat me to it, but yeah - damn! Furries?! That like throwing carebears at the sleepers?
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
#8 - 2012-12-05 17:17:57 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
I've been seriously debating to switching to faction missiles to compensate for the range nerf. What are your thoughts on the best new sleeper killer? (Note I was using furry before)


Ok, with all the trolling aside, I will try to deliver an intelligent answer. Let me also disclaim that I left wormholes months ago, though my heart does long to return at times.

At the time, we were doing sites mostly in remote rep Tengus, with the odd loki or drake thrown in. Remote rep tengus with heavies just made it easy to run sleeper sites at all levels and the profit margins isk/hour wise were pretty good. I am assuming that you are attempting to do basically the same thing as were, but with tengus nerfed, finding a suitable replacement in holes where you can't reasonably do cap escalations is difficult.

For reference:
C1--any battlecruiser solo will do
C2--Can do it with a very well set up battlecruiser, and a t3 is overkill. Pack of Bcs preferred.
C3-C4 -- RR Tengu fleet used to be king of the hill here. As a note, I have ALWAYS used faction missiles in wormholes, because the sleepers makeup for it. I would suggest trying to keep the RR Tengu fleet and switch to faction, if that doesn't work, its time to upgrade to battleship fleets.

However, I think the WH community in general needs more info.

What sites in what class are you trying to run?

What exact setup have you been using?
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#9 - 2012-12-06 01:48:42 UTC
C4+ Spider Tank Tengus/lokis
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-12-06 02:00:26 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
C4+ Spider Tank Tengus/lokis


Even with the range nerf, T1 and faction should have a longer range than your targeting range for most RR fits. I did some basic calculations before retribution and figure using all faction the standard C4 site should burn about 4 million in faction missiles, if you use them exclusively. Given we've averaged at least 80mil per C4 we aren't concerned about the cost.
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#11 - 2012-12-06 02:01:11 UTC
Oh yeah we used to use scourge furry as well. Shouuld mention that
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-12-06 02:05:39 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
Oh yeah we used to use scourge furry as well. Shouuld mention that


You did mention that. And they are just fury. Might still be useful, although you have to consider the 10 sec reload time.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-12-06 03:30:20 UTC
lol, ive done the opposite on my PVP tengu, going from using faction to fury.
faction was better before the patch, now fury is actually better DPS.
if 70km isnt enough for you, then youre probably doing something wrong.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-12-06 03:42:43 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
lol, ive done the opposite on my PVP tengu, going from using faction to fury.
faction was better before the patch, now fury is actually better DPS.
if 70km isnt enough for you, then youre probably doing something wrong.


I guess it depends on what you are shooting? I honestly don't remember the before numbers, but didn't the explosion radius of Furies go up quite a bit?

at least on the PVE side of things (which is the OP's question) Faction seems like a good choice between the two, since sites still have a mix of frigs to BS.

I'll probably still carry some furies and switch to them when I have to reload anyhow to take out the sleeper BS. Faction for others. Maybe try precision again.

The difficult part is the reload, in some instances it may not be worth the reload for the slightly faster killing time for a specific ship.
Svodola Darkfury
Cloak and Daggers
The Initiative.
#15 - 2012-12-06 12:01:22 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
lol, ive done the opposite on my PVP tengu, going from using faction to fury.
faction was better before the patch, now fury is actually better DPS.
if 70km isnt enough for you, then youre probably doing something wrong.


I guess it depends on what you are shooting? I honestly don't remember the before numbers, but didn't the explosion radius of Furies go up quite a bit?

at least on the PVE side of things (which is the OP's question) Faction seems like a good choice between the two, since sites still have a mix of frigs to BS.

I'll probably still carry some furies and switch to them when I have to reload anyhow to take out the sleeper BS. Faction for others. Maybe try precision again.

The difficult part is the reload, in some instances it may not be worth the reload for the slightly faster killing time for a specific ship.




Furies are better for Cruisers + Battleships with even a single painter or possibly rigors. Navies still take the cake for frigates from my experience so far.

The damage nerf was not that significant, the range nerf just brought in line with old drakes more or less, so you should still be competitive; still miles better than any other cruiser hull imo.

Svo.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-12-06 13:33:14 UTC
Goodluvins wrote:
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
I've been seriously debating to switching to faction missiles to compensate for the range nerf. What are your thoughts on the best new sleeper killer? (Note I was using furry before)


So....what exactly were you using a furry for? Bear If furries don't work, try using pedos (lol) Agh, it's too early for this..

furry launchers. sounds like something the japanese would invent....

I should buy an Ishtar.
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-12-06 14:29:09 UTC
Running C3's with no effects. I find a strong local Tengu with HAMs is king. The skill changes make the HAMs very powerful now and I only lost 2km on my T2 damage missiles (33km now)

I personally love the changes because I changed to a HAM tengu as soon as I saw the nerf coming to heavy missiles.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-12-06 14:44:20 UTC
Found some C4 sites last night and did some playing around. All Frontier Barracks, so I could test different mixes. The difference between using T1 and Furies, and all faction was about 2.5 minutes for a site for me. This was using my dual Tengu setup (which is slower than a normal RR fleet setup, but nobody else was online at the time).
RioCrokite
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-12-06 17:22:32 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Found some C4 sites last night and did some playing around. All Frontier Barracks, so I could test different mixes. The difference between using T1 and Furies, and all faction was about 2.5 minutes for a site for me. This was using my dual Tengu setup (which is slower than a normal RR fleet setup, but nobody else was online at the time).


Wait, shouldn't your 5 launcher rr tengu have 750+ dps now with hams?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-12-06 17:49:28 UTC
RioCrokite wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Found some C4 sites last night and did some playing around. All Frontier Barracks, so I could test different mixes. The difference between using T1 and Furies, and all faction was about 2.5 minutes for a site for me. This was using my dual Tengu setup (which is slower than a normal RR fleet setup, but nobody else was online at the time).


Wait, shouldn't your 5 launcher rr tengu have 750+ dps now with hams?



Maybe,

I haven't played with turning them into HAM's yet. And we'd also need to find a decent exit to empire to pick up more assault launchers.(Got tired of collapsing trying to find a way out). Was just playing with what was available.

And this wasn't an RR setup. It was a dual box setup I use when nobody else is logged on (otherwise we'd use 3-4 RR fits)
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