EVE General Discussion

Now that PVP penalties have been applied to Logistics and Support pilots, isn’t it about time the PVP rewards be applied to them as well?

If a Logistics pilot reps a Suspect ship it gets flagged as Suspect and takes a Sec status hit accordingly. In High Sec the risk of flying Logistics has gone from no risk (neutral alts) to high risk (they will probably be primaried as soon as they go flashy). In Low Sec Logistics pilots will be taking the Sec status hits for ship and POD kills without getting any credit for them. I imagine it will not be long before I have to chose whether I rep someone who has killed a POD or tell them to try not to take too much damage for the next 15 minutes. As a DPS pilot I can choose not to kill PODs, but as a Logistics pilot my responsibility to my fleet is going to require I eat a lot of Criminal flags in Low Sec.

So if Logistics pilots are going to suffer the same penalties for PVP, should they not get some credit as well? I think that if you use a support module on a fleet member who has an active offensive module, then you should be listed as an aggressor toward the target of that offensive module and if that target dies you should be listed on the Kill Mail. After all, you are getting flagged for the act.

I have done most of my PVP in NPC Null Sec so I still have a +3 Sec status even though I have not done a mission in nine months. However I just joined a Low Sec PVP alliance and I intend to fly Logistics. This means that my Sec status will tank, and since I can’t reasonably chose not to participate in POD kills it means it will tank fast. This is the new cost of flying Logistics in Low Sec, and I can accept that. But it would be a lot easier to accept if I actually got credit for the kill. What really bothers me is what this is going to do to my kill board. My kill board is going to show nothing but Guardian and Scimitar losses, and all my ratios are going to go negative.

There are workarounds, but non of them make any tactical sense. I am not going to mount a gun on my Logistics ship as it would require me to drop a remote rep, and I am not going to drop a prop or an ECCM mod for a point or some other Ewar module. The most viable workaround is to use combat or Ewar drones, and assign them to one of my more aggressive fleet members. However, this is cumbersome, prone to drone loss, and is too much of a distraction when fighting through a gate camps while roaming. Trying to control combat drones yourself is even worse. You are likely to end up repping enemy ships while setting your drones on friendly targets.

There are many Logistics pilots who maintain that it is better to go full support and carry repair drones and I tend to fall into this camp. Particularly with Shield Logistics ships, where I think it is a good idea to carry some armour rep drones to repair any damage that may have gotten through the shields, since armour does not self generate as shields do between engagements.

When using a support module (remote rep, energy transfer, remote sensor booster, etc.) on a ship with an active offensive module, you should be added to the kill mail if the target of the offensive module dies. It is about time that Logistics pilots start getting some credit and recognition for their contribution to PVP.

I am a logistics pilot and I understand the "issue", but I don't see a killmail (which is only public out of game) as a reward for pvp.

I think the problem that CCP is running in to with this is that support module usage is not logged into the same pool of data as offensive modules which creates problems when trying to pull the kill report. (Reason I think this is because it doesn't show up in the combat log who I repaired.)

I don't think this is something that can't be overcome, but I don't think it is as easy as just joining two database tables together.

Tl;dr

MAH KILLBOARD STATS

That is a good point. Currently it takes so much training to get into Logistics that Logistics pilots have somewhat come to terms with the fact that they don’t get credit before they start actually flying Logistics. Many pilots with the skills to fly logi chose to fly DPS instead for the glory, so the people who actually do fly logi tend to be the givers, the ones who want to contribute to the success of their Corp or Alliance and are willing to make personal sacrifices to do so. It has been easy for CCP to ignore these guys as they are not the squeaky wheel types.

However the average T1 Support pilot is going to be new pilots who think “hay, I should try Logi” and jump in a T1 Support ship and then go “what do you mean I don’t get on kill mails? This Sucks!” I expect these new T1 Support pilots to vastly outnumber the old experienced masochistic self sacrificing Logistics pilots, so the uproar on this issue will probably will raise its priority at last.

Yes, that is the short version.

Of course I expect you would be just as quick to use a link to my killboard to undermine my credibility if I posted an opinion on a PVP subject, so I think it is reasonable to want it to accurately represent my involvement in PVP rather than just showing my losses.

I followed your link and it looks like you have discovered an oversight that needs to be fixed, but do you happen to have a link to support what you said in this thread? I have not participated in any wars, so I am not as familiar with the mechanics, but if Logi are getting on kill mails for repping in that situation I would like to know more.

Because some people don't care about killmails as much as others do - thus the needs of the many overcome the needs of the few.

This is my biggest problem with EVE. I ***** about it literally all the time. This is a feature that has been standard for over 10 years in almost every MMO (let alone one that advocates the use of alts as hard as EVE does). People have told me EVE used to have this feature, and it was removed years ago because it was buggy. That makes it even worse.