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For all the Drone users

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JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#21 - 2012-12-05 11:30:39 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
[the only place where there is zero risk in eve is INSIDE a station
but that doesn't make nulsec sound as badass, so therefore nulsec dwellers declared that nulsec risk is riskier risk because it's riskier risk.



For some reason this reminded me of known knowns, and known unknowns, along with unknown knowns.
AndromacheDarkstar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-12-05 11:33:10 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
AndromacheDarkstar wrote:
Just felt the need to point something out here, the reason you are losing drones from your drone boats is because the AI is actually acting intelligently. Its doing somthing PVP`ers would do when faced with a boat that does its DPS through drones and removing the threat. This provides a challenge, if you dont like challenging gameplay then eve is not for you and you are welcome to leave, the door is over there.


I never thought a Malestrom or Vargur did their DPS through drones.

That has clearly to be the reason why the intelligently acting AI shoots some Warriors I, while 8 x 800mm autocannons farm them like a meatgrinder. Roll


They cant remove your ship DPS as quickly as they can remove your drone DPS
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-12-05 11:38:17 UTC
AndromacheDarkstar wrote:
Just felt the need to point something out here, the reason you are losing drones from your drone boats is because the AI is actually acting intelligently. Its doing somthing PVP`ers would do when faced with a boat that does its DPS through drones and removing the threat. This provides a challenge, if you dont like challenging gameplay then eve is not for you and you are welcome to leave, the door is over there.

Alternatively you could think about how you play the game and maybe, just maybe try something new when running your 450th mission in a row in you drone boat you havent ever lost with the 1 set of drones you bought 3 years ago. Maybe pick up a ship with guns, get some friends in to share the reward, maybe use your drone boat for pvp.

Which brings me to the next point, drone boats are not dead, just dead to you. I still love drones in PVP. Your playing EVE ladies and gents. Man up


The thread title led me to believe I would be posting in another "oh nose my drones!" thread - but what you said a thousand times! Those poor little mission runners - suddenly, their predictable little missions aren't predictable anymore. Too bad they won't listen, though, because making excuses for their just being generally bad at EVE (hence why they run missions and don't like change) is all they're really good at.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Irya Boone
The Scope
#24 - 2012-12-05 11:43:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Irya Boone
Some people choose the Drone Play style for some reason , i like playing with my dominix ( like this ship ) Never been afk'ed in mission
I Think this patch is unfair because a lot of people rely on drones for their DPS , to be fair I think the NPc should destroy any Missiles smaller than them just after the launch.

CCP doesn't Love Drones and drone Boat So Be honest for once and tell every one to skill Caldari and missile .. maybe laser now and it Will be good Too but don't be an hypocrite by nerfing drone boat every month.

It been 4 years people Asking TO Do something about heavy drone Speed .... 2 years to go to a target at 20Km (even with navigation module) so instead of doing things no one asked ... fix that.

Ps: When people asked To improved L4 and npcs It was more Than instead Of Putting a nest of Frigate in LV4 put BS and carrier NPC with Ewar make The LvL4 impossible to do Solo , make npc use drones too etc etc ... not that

And if you don't want people To AFK running mission You could just Do one THING : REMOVE the Aggressive Mode of drone .....
That it ;only that; ((so you Have to choose to click engage target on every target)) .

And to discourage AFK mining improve Dps of Astreroids belt pirates : as no more aggressive Mode on drones installed
30min of attack >>>pirates get a dps of 300
1min00>>>450
1m30>>>800
So , make that 3 min of afk in a exhumer under attack of pirate in high sec == Wreck of exhumer.
etc etc so the miners will have to kill the pirates as soon as they get on the grid.
It's simple and don't have to add anything in the code ( you already have the code for the sequential improvement of dps >>reacting hardener code ^^

I leave in WH for a year now so 1 year I dealing with this AI so no problem for me because sleepers are a bit different.

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#25 - 2012-12-05 11:44:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
They made it less challenging and more of a pain in the ass tbh

o/
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-12-05 11:47:44 UTC
Gate guns don't shoot drones, I'm happy
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#27 - 2012-12-05 12:16:32 UTC
OP is yet another person in a long line of them thinking they know how people should play the game. Another thread on drones wasn't really needed sir, you could have posted this in one of the many other threads about drones. Blink
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-12-05 12:44:57 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
OP is yet another person in a long line of them thinking they know how people should play the game. Another thread on drones wasn't really needed sir, you could have posted this in one of the many other threads about drones. Blink


but they are a special snowflake and therefore deserve to have a thread of thier very own
Rengerel en Distel
#29 - 2012-12-05 12:47:12 UTC
You should probably go tell that guy from goonswarm how bad he is at the game for losing 400+ garde IIs in his carrier ratting. Obviously his carrier should switch to his other weapons, right?

But please, continue to tell people that play the game differently than you, that they're doing it wrong.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Nevryn Takis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-12-05 12:55:13 UTC
As I've posted elsewhere it's not only an issue for mission runners ..
before the patch is 3 angle frigates decide to target T2 mining drones it's take them 60 secs to kill the drone
after the patch it takes less than 10 ... and they always target the drones if they're out.. makes using them completely pointless
and if you actually deploy warrirors to kill the rats the AI does not switch to the combat drones..
So you're trying to convince me that a change in the AI to make it more intelligent about what it targets is responsible for a 5 fold increase in damge output against drones?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#31 - 2012-12-05 13:01:55 UTC
AndromacheDarkstar wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
AndromacheDarkstar wrote:
Just felt the need to point something out here, the reason you are losing drones from your drone boats is because the AI is actually acting intelligently. Its doing somthing PVP`ers would do when faced with a boat that does its DPS through drones and removing the threat. This provides a challenge, if you dont like challenging gameplay then eve is not for you and you are welcome to leave, the door is over there.


I never thought a Malestrom or Vargur did their DPS through drones.

That has clearly to be the reason why the intelligently acting AI shoots some Warriors I, while 8 x 800mm autocannons farm them like a meatgrinder. Roll


They cant remove your ship DPS as quickly as they can remove your drone DPS


I have yet to see anyone in PvP being fixated killing my Minmatar ship's drones. Maybe because it's stupid? So why do you say AI is acting intelligently if they can't even adapt to who is attacking them?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#32 - 2012-12-05 13:13:48 UTC
JC Anderson wrote:
As a related question, are the NPC's only switching their targets to your drones if they are closer to them than you are?
No, they switch to the drones if they perceive them to be either a bigger threat than anything else on the field or if they see them as "new arrivals" (which is one of their main pet peeves and which will often trigger their ire).

One of the ways to keep fire off the drones is to ensure that something else looks like a bigger problem - something like, say, an ewar ship or a remote support ship or some other kind of force multiplier that the AI feels the need to take care of first to cut down on the difficulty of the opposition. When such a target is identified, the AI will conclude that it needs to be killed first, and that the relatively weak drone DPS can wait until later.
Planktal
Kenshao Industries
#33 - 2012-12-05 13:13:53 UTC
All interesting comments but for the fact the new NPC AI is broken right out the door. Just have to, after getting the first aggro, is launch mediums, wait for them to catch aggro (usually takes about 10-15 seconds) retrieve then wait 10 seconds then relaunch, aggro free for the rest of the room. May have to pull back and relaunch if a new wave spawns. even lights work if you wait until the second launch cause they die fast if launched first.

Here sanity, nice sanity.....THWOOK Got the bastard
Rensari
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-12-05 13:52:48 UTC
At least OP is recognizing that drones are not viable for pve anymore.

They need to add an overheat mechanism to guns so they become worthless after 10 seconds and we will see if the OPs attitude changes.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-12-05 13:54:39 UTC
AndromacheDarkstar wrote:
Just felt the need to point something out here, the reason you are losing drones from your drone boats is because the AI is actually acting intelligently. Its doing somthing PVP`ers would do when faced with a boat that does its DPS through drones and removing the threat. This provides a challenge, if you dont like challenging gameplay then eve is not for you and you are welcome to leave, the door is over there.


Until ALL NPCs also begin to "intelligently" attack your turrets' ability to do damage by TDing them, AND also ALL NPCs "intelligently" begin to spam defender missiles to reduce your launchers' ability to do damage, you have no case. Better luck next time.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#36 - 2012-12-05 13:54:56 UTC
Planktal wrote:
All interesting comments but for the fact the new NPC AI is broken right out the door. Just have to, after getting the first aggro, is launch mediums, wait for them to catch aggro (usually takes about 10-15 seconds) retrieve then wait 10 seconds then relaunch, aggro free for the rest of the room. May have to pull back and relaunch if a new wave spawns. even lights work if you wait until the second launch cause they die fast if launched first.


you do know that's a bug ccp is going to fix soon right? Check out the thread in the Test Server Feedback forum.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#37 - 2012-12-05 13:56:40 UTC
Tippia wrote:
JC Anderson wrote:
As a related question, are the NPC's only switching their targets to your drones if they are closer to them than you are?
No, they switch to the drones if they perceive them to be either a bigger threat than anything else on the field or if they see them as "new arrivals" (which is one of their main pet peeves and which will often trigger their ire).

One of the ways to keep fire off the drones is to ensure that something else looks like a bigger problem - something like, say, an ewar ship or a remote support ship or some other kind of force multiplier that the AI feels the need to take care of first to cut down on the difficulty of the opposition. When such a target is identified, the AI will conclude that it needs to be killed first, and that the relatively weak drone DPS can wait until later.


TY
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#38 - 2012-12-05 13:56:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
JC Anderson wrote:
As a related question, are the NPC's only switching their targets to your drones if they are closer to them than you are?
No, they switch to the drones if they perceive them to be either a bigger threat than anything else on the field or if they see them as "new arrivals" (which is one of their main pet peeves and which will often trigger their ire).

One of the ways to keep fire off the drones is to ensure that something else looks like a bigger problem - something like, say, an ewar ship or a remote support ship or some other kind of force multiplier that the AI feels the need to take care of first to cut down on the difficulty of the opposition. When such a target is identified, the AI will conclude that it needs to be killed first, and that the relatively weak drone DPS can wait until later.


Doesn't quite work that way. Sometimes you can stop them from switching, sometimes you can't, a few times i've even unloaded a boatload of threat (ecm, webs, mach dps, remote repping) and STILL watched noc frigs continue to chew my light drones up.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-12-05 13:59:12 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
AndromacheDarkstar wrote:
Just felt the need to point something out here, the reason you are losing drones from your drone boats is because the AI is actually acting intelligently. Its doing somthing PVP`ers would do when faced with a boat that does its DPS through drones and removing the threat. This provides a challenge, if you dont like challenging gameplay then eve is not for you and you are welcome to leave, the door is over there.


I never thought a Malestrom or Vargur did their DPS through drones.

That has clearly to be the reason why the intelligently acting AI shoots some Warriors I, while 8 x 800mm autocannons farm them like a meatgrinder. Roll



Drone tanking?

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
cBOLTSON
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-12-05 13:59:42 UTC
Humm Im on the fence with this issue. Its great that AI is stronger now and yes they should shoot drones, but lets be honest here -

The idea is that NPC AI acts somewhat more like people, it would be a rare day that a FC calls a whole fleet to primary a single drone.

I dont know, either drones are a separate true weapon system next to guns and missiles, or they are just a 'sidearm' either way more needs to be done!

The good old days of Unreal Tournament, fragging and sniping on Facing Worlds, listening to Foregone Destruction.......