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I am having lots of fun in EVE!, Why isn't this game more popular?

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Sionet
Doomheim
#141 - 2012-12-04 06:39:23 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
Because for one person to have fun another person must lose something?



Brilliant : )
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#142 - 2012-12-04 06:48:32 UTC
Sionet wrote:
Demolishar wrote:
Because for one person to have fun another person must lose something?

Brilliant : )

So the OP is a bad person and should feel bad?

That doesn't seem right, EVE is a great game for all playstyles. Yes, even you afk miner wit no tank, and you too, freighter with far too much expensive stuff in the hold autopiloting to Jita.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#143 - 2012-12-04 07:02:52 UTC
Dog eat Dog; Zero sum.

That's what makes EVE so fun!



(bustin' rhymes yo)
ThatOleSerpent
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#144 - 2012-12-04 07:32:52 UTC  |  Edited by: ThatOleSerpent
I am so glad to see this topic surface : ) Its a good question. Eve is a unique game, that offers some pretty knarly pvp and a very complex crafting. People play games to have fun and eve is hard and sometimes not fun because defeat actually means loss. When someone else has the power to influence your own actions, it can be frustrating, but all those other games don't offer that. They don't let you purchase game-time with in-game currency. You have to truly trust others and form continuity amungst your piers. The long training periods and the character market all offer something very special bring balance to the gaming community. NO HACKERS HERE!!!

So if eve is so awesome where is the turnout?? The answer is the rewards are not good enough. And evething in the game is a overpriced and everything i ever worked for in this game has been nurfed to the point where there are better things in the game to move on to. . And something else, this game is the most expensive game out there, you wanna get them in the this game, guess what they are well grounded with their own groups of friends and are already intimidated by the difficulty and time needed to make a solid toon. Never mind invest more money they dont even have into another game which ends up costing them more than any other games they play.

As for me, I like the new changes, excect for the on grid booster alt thing, but its cool cause my corp has plenty and its one less account i have to PAY for but why would you kill that, i mean who really flies a booster toon as a primary account?....kinda weak there and i know you people don't care what i think but its almost 200 bucks a year ccp will not be getting from me and that's for real. OH yea and one other thing, JF's are a rip off please either reduce the requirements to make them or buff them so they are worth more than a streak of **** in reality. ( One of my Biggest Gripes about CCP is your policing of speech, I understand many of you countries are not allowed to say whatever the hell you want but in America we are, and the extend ccp goes into policing speech is ridiculous and aggravating).

I ask people from all over to come play this game, its not they don't have the time, they are gaming addicts (20+hrs/wk) they don't have the money. they don't want to spend more money on a game.

I know what I am about to say may sound ridiculous but i think the key to getting millions more players is not sharking other gamers from other games, eve must offer something that will destroy any other game, something revolutionary... I mean, star citizen is coming in 2 years, you guys got a lot to worry about with them.

What if you could somehow play a hardcore game like this with no cheaters and everyone all the same server, have sophisticated game content like this game, add to it, and allow room to make real money off a video game with an actual exchange.... I assure you it will be like the California gold rush and it will become the first time a video game had the potential to become a small financial institution. I mean think about it, who at that point would still want to play their stupid games with nothing on the line and no real rewards to win????

I mean really lets say ccp tried it, the game could cost like 100 bucks a year and earn money on the transactions

This kind of idea might be better on a different game because if it got destroyed by cyberwarfare or it failed it would be the death of eve

Serp

T.F.B.F.
ThatOleSerpent
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#145 - 2012-12-04 07:47:49 UTC  |  Edited by: ThatOleSerpent
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Sionet wrote:
Demolishar wrote:
Because for one person to have fun another person must lose something?

Brilliant : )

So the OP is a bad person and should feel bad?

That doesn't seem right, EVE is a great game for all playstyles. Yes, even you afk miner wit no tank, and you too, freighter with far too much expensive stuff in the hold autopiloting to Jita.



I am sionet, i believe you have mistaken what i meant by brilliant ;) and what makes you think i autopilot to jita with loads of expensive stuff like a bonehead, and if there was no risk of loss, how could you be a good pilot, i mean it would be the same for everyone... Besides, all those fussy tears are just precious :)

T.F.B.F.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#146 - 2012-12-04 09:55:17 UTC
The game isn't popular because in the beginning it's hard , and any choices have consequences ( new normal players don't like It)
And when you play Eve whatever you do you are terribly alone on the Screen ( except if you un-zoom to see the fleet= lot of purple boxes )
In your CQ , you' are alone again
When i say alone i don't talk about TS ,mumble or ventrilo or whatever voice system to hear you mates , but on the screen like other MMO)

And CCP don't do what it takes to make the game .. The game.

BUT as far as i can see every thing that lacks to EVE to make it The Game .. they Put it in DUST514 ....

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Deja Blue
Orion VII Inc.
#147 - 2012-12-04 22:53:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Deja Blue
EVE's popularity is directly related to it's barrier of entry.

I do not think that the developers intend for veteran players to mentor new players. Even so, this is a good recruitment tactic for any organization. But there is still a barrier. If I am not mistaken even EVE University has a 4M SP base requirement. It took me since 2007 and probably 7 - 10 attempts at EVE to really decide to play this seriously and I only this last month crossed that 4M threshold. This is apparently not true, my apologies.

But let us get past that, lets say that there is a fantastic new tutorial that guides you down the path of PVP, mission running successfully, mining successfully, etc.

Now that we are past that we have many new players that still are not going to have developed the skills or acquired the knowledge to be successful or an asset to a veteran corp.

There is also the barrier of origin. I have played WoW since beta in 2004. I have seen that game evolve and understand how the game evolved. I have a HUGE pool of WOW based strategies and tactics to pull from that new players are never going to be aware of, it would be time consuming to explain the origin of these tactics, why they work etc. all while still knowing that they may not completely understand the intricacies on the "I was there" level.

I feel that barrier of origin when I play other games such as Everquest, Everquest 2 etc. I play them but I feel out of place and veterans, as helpful as they can be, simply do not have the time or patience to answer in depth detailed answers. What crops up are jargon that is difficult to convey far reaching understandings.

There are even barriers from previous games of specific genres. In WoW I learned to have the hunter pull for me as a tank, because there were "pullers" in Everquest. I learned to line of sight pull to bring mobs back. I learned what a MOB was. Nowadays in WoW new players have no idea wtf I am talking about when I say "LOS pull" in chat. They run up to the mobs like retards and die while I am running away to get out of line of sight.

Now there are things in EVE that I do not understand. What is a killmail? I am sure someone could tell me, but what is it's history? How did it used to work? When was it implemented and why? Etc. Etc. You can give me a simple definition but the veterans have an inherent visceral knowledge of this and many many other things that I will never have.

Now how does this play into less popularity? I do not think it does I think it portends slow growth and less attrition versus other games. Someone before posted that they think EVE has a set number of players that can support the game. It is similar to the theory that war breaks out regularly when populations get strained. Certainly the world has grown and will continue to grow, but population versus war can be charted and shown to have correlation. EVE fits into this paradigm.

In WoW during the second half of Wrath of the Lich King (post LFG) my hardcore raid guild had to start training new raiders. Gone were the days of letting the cream rise to the top. Smaller raid sizes and veteran attrition had changed the game and spread our ilk thin. Now we worked with players on their stat priorities and skill rotations. We put hours and days into players only to have them leave because they decided that it was too difficult or we decided for them that they would not succeed at the highest level we were at. That was a long and painful process.

EVE has this built in. Any amount of making that barrier to entry easier may result in more subs at the expense of quality players. Certainly there are players that are quality that could play EVE and be an asset but that have not or will not get past this barrier, but let us be careful of what barriers we ease.

I'll give them heroics...and when everyone is super...no one will be.
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#148 - 2012-12-05 04:27:25 UTC
Deja Blue wrote:
If I am not mistaken even EVE University has a 4M SP base requirement.


You are very much mistaken. EVE University has no requirements like that. Simply agreement to follow Wheton's rule, provide a basic API, and register an account on our forums.

No SP or other requirements at all.
Frying Doom
#149 - 2012-12-05 05:14:42 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Deja Blue wrote:
If I am not mistaken even EVE University has a 4M SP base requirement.


You are very much mistaken. EVE University has no requirements like that. Simply agreement to follow Wheton's rule, provide a basic API, and register an account on our forums.

No SP or other requirements at all.

I would have said the complete opposite, I was denied entry a few years ago as I had too many SP and too much experience in the game by that point.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#150 - 2012-12-05 07:07:18 UTC
Not to derail the thread further, but...
Frying Doom wrote:
I would have said the complete opposite, I was denied entry a few years ago as I had too many SP and too much experience in the game by that point.
Actually, you were pointed to our work fair forum as you seemed to have all the skills you needed, and weren't really a new player or inexperienced - tons of SP, a decent corp history and everything suggested you knew what you were doing so you would have been better elsewhere, but we suggested you reapply if you still felt you needed help.
Frying Doom
#151 - 2012-12-05 07:18:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Not to derail the thread further, but...
Frying Doom wrote:
I would have said the complete opposite, I was denied entry a few years ago as I had too many SP and too much experience in the game by that point.
Actually, you were pointed to our work fair forum as you seemed to have all the skills you needed, and weren't really a new player or inexperienced - tons of SP, a decent corp history and everything suggested you knew what you were doing so you would have been better elsewhere, but we suggested you reapply if you still felt you needed help.

Completely correct, oh and thanks that took me down a great path.

Hope the recruiter I spoke to is still there, very helpful guy.



Also I was not slamming the EvE Uni with the comment above, I was actually supporting your statement by stating No you dont have a minimum SP, I just re-read my above post and realised it could read that way.

Be a bit strange EvE Uni having a minimum SP

Anyway back to our normal programming

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#152 - 2012-12-05 11:28:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tom Gerard
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Not to derail the thread further, but...
Frying Doom wrote:
I would have said the complete opposite, I was denied entry a few years ago as I had too many SP and too much experience in the game by that point.
Actually, you were pointed to our work fair forum as you seemed to have all the skills you needed, and weren't really a new player or inexperienced - tons of SP, a decent corp history and everything suggested you knew what you were doing so you would have been better elsewhere, but we suggested you reapply if you still felt you needed help.


E-UNI is a private academy it receives no benefits from CONCORD, CCP, etc.

As such they can implement their warped ethical beliefs as they see fit.

E-UNI is at best a band-aid, and at worst its an excuse for CCP to ignore the new player experience.

E-UNI recently admonished me for having opinions contrary to their own, and was told that I am "all that is wrong in EVE"

They are however a private corporation, and have the right to those opinions, this however ultimately proves the need for a true public learning institution.

Now with 100% less Troll.
Captain Africa
GRIM MARCH
#153 - 2012-12-05 12:06:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Africa
It needs space machines ...
Deja Blue
Orion VII Inc.
#154 - 2012-12-07 07:07:28 UTC
Here is the other side of my previous comment. This is what i personally feel right now, this is what keeps me from even bothering to log in. This is what goes on in my mind when thinking about my future in EVE. I am not saying that you or your corp have these barriers, but this is, nonetheless, the atmosphere that surrounds the new player experience in EVE.

What corp do I join?
Where or how do I learn a corp's reputation?
What if that corp has a bad reputation?
Wont I be ostracized?
Wont I be labeled a spy should I try to join another corp?

There does not seem to be a point of entry into the SOCIAL sphere and I am active and on the forums and in game. Think of all of the new players that are simply in the game hearing the horror stories, being warned about joining the wrong corp and ruining your character permanently.

It is not elitism, it is us versus them, tribal, basic, visceral. We are all guilty and complicit.

There is a standoff, newbies versus oldbies. Oldbies have the field because they are established.

You can preach all day long all you want about the multitude of resources out there like EON, EVEMON etc. Bottom line is after you finish the game tutorial you have to stop playing the game and go to external sites and resources to even begin to know what goals are available to even set your sights on let alone how to go about training for those goals.

I now, after 5 years, have a reasonable idea of what I want to do, but I still have not broken through that social wall. I am still a worthless outsider that no one wants.

The fact that the post newbie help channel has 500+ players in it every..single..day should be a giant red flag that maybe, just maybe, players have no idea what they are doing.

Is it really going to effect your gameplay to have thorough tutorials and guided advancement through 5M skill points?

The CURRENT playerbase and the developers have created a destructive symbiotic relationship where the devs do not have to develop new player content because the CURRENT playerbase wants to keep out newbies and the developers thus do not wish to develop said content lest the CURRENT players protest in Jita again. As well, in CURRENT players and the developers minds new players do not and should not have a say because they are transient.

I see both sides.

This is what I saw for the first 4 years. EVE does not inherently offer me anything other than loging in to train skills and log off. EVE does not offer my anything to become invested. Leaving it to the playerbase to such leaves tons of room for players to fall through the cracks of EVE society. Were every single player given continuous support and guidance far exceeding what is the current tutorial missions, EVE would have greater health. I remember starting in EVE without the missions and I admit the new player experience is a step in the right direction but there is a lot of room for growth.

I'll give them heroics...and when everyone is super...no one will be.
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#155 - 2012-12-07 14:22:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tom Gerard
Deja Blue wrote:

What corp do I join?

The Natural Response would be “What do you want to do in EVE?”
Deja Blue wrote:

I now, after 5 years, have a reasonable idea of what I want to do, but I still have not broken through that social wall. I am still a worthless outsider that no one wants.

My third day in EVE I joined a null-sec corporation, I built ties to one of the weaker but respectable factions (Curatores Veritatis Alliance (CVA)). They have blue lists that cover the galaxy and joining one of those blue alliances easy.
That’s how I broke the social wall, and it was on my third day of EVE, you do need to step out of your shell and risk a ship, pod, and the implants contained within… that is all your risking though. Take chances.

Deja Blue wrote:
The fact that the post newbie help channel has 500+ players in it every..single..day should be a giant red flag that maybe, just maybe, players have no idea what they are doing.


The new player experience beyond the “how to” tutorials is fairly awful, that said the new content is good but doesn't go very far.
The main problem is CCP doesn't recognize it as a problem, the largest corporation in the ENTIRE GAME, is a newbie helper corporation, called E-UNI. What they have tried to do is nothing short of phenomenal, and kudos goes out to them for their ongoing dedication. They however, work on a scale of quantity over quality however, and at the end the pilots they produce are:

• Heavily opinioned
• Risk Adverse to the point of Paranoia
• Entirely dependent on others to fulfill their logistical needs.

This means they aren't worth much more than their total of SP, which would have been the case had they not joined E-UNI in the first place. E-UNI lacks the tools to make good pilots, they are just doing the best with what they have.


In my opinion if CCP wants to get people moving, taking risks would take just one small step:

• SP clones are backwards and confusing, remove the concept of having to back up your SP in a clone.

After that is changed all losses are physical, you lose your pod, you lose your implants, you lose your ship.

Now with 100% less Troll.