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Suggestion on player activity impacting speed of skill training
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bokonnon
The Executioners
#1 - 2012-12-04 23:24:46 UTC  |  Edited by: bokonnon
Firstly I want to stress I am not advocating anything in the way of returning to a Learning Skill system.

One of the legitimate gripes I've heard from friends that play other MMO's in relation to EvE is how the leveling-up system is not impacted by player participation in the game (save logging in, buying a skill, inject said skill, set skill to train & log off). The main argument here being we are being "rewarded" for not playing the game as skills train even when we're offline.

I'm personally to a point where every time I do set a skill to train I can pretty much count on it taking 20+ days and there's nothing I can do about it. Here is my suggestion:

It shouldn't be too difficult to apply a training multiplier to characters who are in ships and undocked. For the majority of players in EvE this would mean we're actively playing the game. I don't have any bright ideas on how apply the multiplyer to docked and active market warriors or preventing bots from exploiting the mechanic, but for the bulk of the community it would be an incentive to be out in space playing.

If the following conditions are met, the training modifier would be x1.0 (no change from current mechanic):

- Docked in NPC station/Outpost
- Inside the force field of a POS - (to exempt pilots flying super capital ships perhaps)
- In a ship with the installed cloaking device ACTIVE (sorry scouts and cloaky haulers)
- In space in a capsule

If none of the above restrictions were met, then the training modifier could be say x1.15. This would give people playing the game a 15% bonus to training while out and about in space.

I'm sure there is some creative person who could come up with the appropriate back-story to justify the bonus, perhaps something along the lines of utilizing spare processor space on the active ship.

Bottom line is I think this would be a very reasonable reward to those of us who are active in game and I know everyone would love to see their skill bar move a little faster.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#2 - 2012-12-04 23:27:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
NO. Absolutely not, ever.

This game does not need grind mechanics.

Edit: Just to let you know, Eve did have a system for increased SP very early on in life and it was abuse. This would be also, so that's another reason for not ever.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Minty Moon
#3 - 2012-12-05 02:54:26 UTC
First off theres a multiple amounts of ways to play the game that aren't flying in space. So essentially you'd be nerfing training of market toons. Corp and alliance heads who are working on essentially paper work for to organize goals and activities of their members. Manufacturers who spend most of their time in stations. All these people are playing the game.

Why should some play style benefit something as universal as SP over another?

If you want to speed up training which YOU CAN. by +5 implants or +4's use your remaps wisely All those things can contribute to shortening your training time.

Also the one thing I enjoy about eve is the fact that I don't need to grind npc's to level up to use more ships. That you know I can have a life outside the game and my character keeps growing to let me try new things. If i had to manually level up by some awful grind in anyway. I'd probably of quit long ago.

Also EvE isn't about your SP, if you're focusing on how you don't have as many SP as another. Your playing the game wrong.

Hell only reason I know the amount of skill points i even have is purely because I have to keep my clone update lol


The current system is great, because literally every player is balanced. In their training potential, no matter what goes on out in RL

People seriously need to stop trying to change the training que because they are impatient to get into larger ships.

(Player Opened Direct Wormholes) (Expanding on Wormholes)
Bluegeneral
Risk Breakers
SONS of BANE
#4 - 2012-12-05 03:10:47 UTC
bokonnon wrote:
Firstly I want to stress I am not advocating anything in the way of returning to a Learning Skill system.

One of the legitimate gripes I've heard from friends that play other MMO's in relation to EvE is how the leveling-up system is not impacted by player participation in the game (save logging in, buying a skill, inject said skill, set skill to train & log off). The main argument here being we are being "rewarded" for not playing the game as skills train even when we're offline.

I'm personally to a point where every time I do set a skill to train I can pretty much count on it taking 20+ days and there's nothing I can do about it. Here is my suggestion:

It shouldn't be too difficult to apply a training multiplier to characters who are in ships and undocked. For the majority of players in EvE this would mean we're actively playing the game. I don't have any bright ideas on how apply the multiplyer to docked and active market warriors or preventing bots from exploiting the mechanic, but for the bulk of the community it would be an incentive to be out in space playing.

If the following conditions are met, the training modifier would be x1.0 (no change from current mechanic):

- Docked in NPC station/Outpost
- Inside the force field of a POS - (to exempt pilots flying super capital ships perhaps)
- In a ship with the installed cloaking device ACTIVE (sorry scouts and cloaky haulers)
- In space in a capsule

If none of the above restrictions were met, then the training modifier could be say x1.15. This would give people playing the game a 15% bonus to training while out and about in space.

I'm sure there is some creative person who could come up with the appropriate back-story to justify the bonus, perhaps something along the lines of utilizing spare processor space on the active ship.

Bottom line is I think this would be a very reasonable reward to those of us who are active in game and I know everyone would love to see their skill bar move a little faster.



I agree with all the other posts here, I would have quit EvE if it was such a grind. I ENJOY very much having a real life but still not missing out on stuff in game because of "leveling" When I played another MMO I was devoting 8+ hours per day just to stay in the top 1% of players. Now I don't have to do that. The only suggestion I would have is making the training Q longer. Say to a month rather than 24 hours. That would give me EVEN more time in real life lol :P
Emma Yobibit
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-12-05 03:43:51 UTC
Mag's wrote:
NO. Absolutely not, ever.

This game does not need grind mechanics.

Edit: Just to let you know, Eve did have a system for increased SP very early on in life and it was abuse. This would be also, so that's another reason for not ever.


wait wait.... grinding is not in eve? lols.. last i heard its one of the most annoying games for how much work you need to do to even start playing it, everyone grids for isk, you need lots of time spent in minning or missions, or exploration or sleeper killing or incurstions or industry, again and again, htis IS a grinding game, like ANY MMO out there
Emma Yobibit
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-12-05 03:51:45 UTC
lols so players think there getting better with SP?..... ok i get why ccp is leaving this there -.- so players fell like there getting better somehow i guess and they fell like they have something to lose if they dont come back the next day,..... well gives everyone more stuff to shoot on the long run by players who think they can play, so be it, i would not care less, it just means you need to pay over 200$ to even be close to level of other players really thats what it means to me at the end, if you dont take real game experience its up to you but i fell sometimes its a bit unfair to some sooner in game players, i remember finding lvl4s hard, now every form of solo pve is just to easy, or in c3-4 whs needing to much isk that i rather just try it with another char to get fun out of it, then again, onece you know how mechanics work, you dont have fun with NPCs, you just ruin there lives or get to much dps on your own ship and die
AIs should be made smarter. i would like to have a real figth and get ruined like FTL did, pvp is fun extremly fun but when do you get a figth in pvp thats not a complet blob or over run from one side?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#7 - 2012-12-05 08:26:39 UTC
Emma Yobibit wrote:
Mag's wrote:
NO. Absolutely not, ever.

This game does not need grind mechanics.

Edit: Just to let you know, Eve did have a system for increased SP very early on in life and it was abuse. This would be also, so that's another reason for not ever.


wait wait.... grinding is not in eve? lols.. last i heard its one of the most annoying games for how much work you need to do to even start playing it, everyone grids for isk, you need lots of time spent in minning or missions, or exploration or sleeper killing or incurstions or industry, again and again, htis IS a grinding game, like ANY MMO out there
YOU may have to do that, I don't. In fact here I am not playing for ages due to RL stuff and happily collecting SP and ISK without any grind whatsoever.

So no, it's not at all like any MMO out there.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Kuro Bon
Test Corp 123
#8 - 2012-12-05 09:15:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuro Bon
i don't like the OP suggestion as it would be abused with constant afk and bots (and 15% is too small to matter). HOWEVER, I'm sympathetic to the issue. the sad truth is that for 'optimizer players' the most efficient thing to do is train and not play. everything you can do in the game can be done more efficiently with more SP. combine this with the fact that playing doesn't get you SP, and the optimal move is simply to train until the point of diminishing returns for your desired activity.

EVE calendar SP is a unique system with unique benefits. However, it is somewhat wrong that a player who has never mined a rock or fired a weapon can max out those skills, spend a little cash, and skip the community participation part of progression. There is lots of room to require _some_ activity to progress without it being a grind. It might simply make it less viable to make a zillion alts for multi-boxing.

Perhaps some kind of achievement based skill prereqs, where one would need to mine some trivial amount of ore before advanced mining skills, or use ships for some small amount of pve/pvp before advanced combat skills. Any player who was "playing" the game would trivially already pass these goals, so it wouldn't be a grind. It would just be a gate to prevent progression of non-players.

Minty Moon wrote:
Also EvE isn't about your SP, if you're focusing on how you don't have as many SP as another. Your playing the game wrong.
....
People seriously need to stop trying to change the training que because they are impatient to get into larger ships.


I find SP to be very significant, especially for solo or small group play.

The solo and small gang pvp fits I want to use require lots of skills. Solo mission or mining takes lots of skills to be efficient at. With about 20M SP, I still can't make enough ISK off mission running to be anywhere near worth the time (it's pennies per hour equivilant) Sure, I have enough SP to 'ride along' in a corp and get handouts or nothing, but that takes much longer playtime sessions. Things in eve take a long time, and groups take longer. if I want to do something useful in an hour or two, it takes alot of SP. even then it's hard.

I suppose if the primary activity in EVE is getting blown up, anyone has enough SP for that... if the goal is to contribute materially to the winning side of that exchange, it takes SP.

Protip: 100M ISK per hour is about $3US an hour.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-12-05 11:20:40 UTC
Emma Yobibit wrote:
Mag's wrote:
NO. Absolutely not, ever.

This game does not need grind mechanics.

Edit: Just to let you know, Eve did have a system for increased SP very early on in life and it was abuse. This would be also, so that's another reason for not ever.


wait wait.... grinding is not in eve? lols.. last i heard its one of the most annoying games for how much work you need to do to even start playing it, everyone grids for isk, you need lots of time spent in minning or missions, or exploration or sleeper killing or incurstions or industry, again and again, htis IS a grinding game, like ANY MMO out there


Lol

You grind in missions/mining/what ever cause YOU choose too.

I have lots of fun time in EVE with PvP without grinding at all.

I spent about 30 / 45 min a day updating my traders and then I'm done.

All the other time is spent doing things I like....

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Azran Zala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-12-05 12:10:48 UTC
No
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#11 - 2012-12-05 12:18:57 UTC
No. Absolutely not. Not ever.

I don't even care what your argument is. No.
Ashbourne
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-12-05 12:46:52 UTC
What a lot of people from other MMOs don't realise is that eve's skills aren't everything. Just because you're qualified to sit in a Mach, doesn't mean you've got the billion isk to buy it. Likewise for vice-versa.

I like the way it is now. You set your skills to grind on their own and concentrate on just playing the game and getting your iskies. No pressure.