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Tengu Nerf Data Gathering

Caitlyn Tufy
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-12-05 09:26:55 UTC
Bloody Wench wrote:
You're wrong on just about everything here, so that deserves a :golfclap:

The main advantages the tengu has over everything else is it's...well everything.

I don't have to read the mission.
I don't have to swap hardeners.
I don't have to swap ammo types.
Accept, undock, kill everything, complete.

You're talking 12 volleys against an EM weak ship using Kin missiles VS 8 Volleys against a Kin weak Rat.
But I didn't waste time looking at the mission on eve-survival, I didn't waste time fuckin about with hardeners, and I didn't waste time making sure I had enough EM ammo.

700+ DPS Kinetic
Cap stable & grossly over tanked for anything lvl4's has to offer, while not sacrificing DPS for tank.

Viable weapon systems DO NOT include HAMs in any sense. Having to move or chase NPCs at all to get into range completely fucks completion times.

Why do people insist on speed tanking a tengu? LVL 4s do not have enough DPS to break it.

First, I suggest a class in reading comprehension, because reading a mission or swapping hardeners was never mentioned even with a word. A Tengu can tank any level 4 mission with an afterburner and one small (yes, small) shield booster, everything else is purely a safety net. But this misdirection of yours has nothing at all to do with my comment. The cold, hard and PROVEN fact is that the ship does NOT have an optimal damage application to anything but kinetic weak rats. Even more, despite its 25% bonus,EM weapons (Mjolnir) are superior against EM weak rats. If you do not swap your ammo accordingly, you're not using Tengu to its optimal capacity. Even with EM weapons, though, it will be considerably inferior to dedicated EM boats such as Amarr ships.

Furthermore, in spite of its kinetic bonus and all its advantages, several battleships (CNR, Machariel, Nightmare, etc., depending on mission) will finish a number of missions faster than it - sometimes a lot faster, because they will ALWAYS do more damage on larger targets. For instance, a properly equipped CNR will deal 800 dps (minus resists, so around 480 dps) against a Sansha battleship - a Tengu will only pull off 542 (minus resists, around 325 dps) - granted, he'll do that on Cruisers as well, but in a battleship heavy environment, that's a HUGE difference. For comparison, the Scourge (kinetic) Tengu will only deal around 271 dps, an additional 19% dps drop. (Note: the figures are with full level 5 skills and without implants or boosters). As we can see, a kinetic Tengu will finish battleship heavy Sansha mission up to whooping 77% slower than an EM CNR! To give you an additional perspective, we can compare a Nightmare and a Machariel against an Angels mission - the difference in completion times due to simple damage limitations of the former is 40 vs 20 minutes PER MISSION. If you do only 3 of those missions, that's an additional HOUR lost to wrong ship choice.Since I'm at Angels, let's do the same for our CNR vs. Tengu as well - their ships have approximately 70% EM, 40% Explosive, 50% Kinetic and 60% Thermal resists. Obviously, the best choice is Explosive, but due to Tengu's 25% kinetic bonus, that's the logical option, CNR can choose at will. Tengu will deal approximately 339 dps to their battleships, while CNR will deal 480, approximately 41% more. Why then do we not all run in battleships? Because Cruise Missiles will have severe issues hitting anything smaller than a cruiser (and even elite cruisers can be a pain), while a Tengu will still apply enough damage to Frigates. The larger the targets, the more battleships are favoured, the smaller the targets, the better the Tengu is in comparison.

And lastly, you don't need to read anything, the simple name of the mission and enemy's icon will give you all the information you need once you've done them for a while. If you get Guristas, you'll know to use Kinetic, Sansha EM and so on, there's no rocket science to it. Tengu's a great ship, I use it all the time myself, but it's not the be-all-end-all god that some of you seem to hold it for. There are clear and well defined better choices by all objective standards.

So please, next time you accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about, try to check the facts first.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-12-05 10:08:00 UTC
all I saw was a Heavy missile nerf.

Strange people call it a Tengu Nerf.

Mra Rednu
Vanishing Point.
#23 - 2012-12-05 10:23:17 UTC
Angsty Teenager wrote:
Just so everybody knows, the tengu was and still pretty much is the best ship for missioning in terms of isk per hour. No--not because of it's dps, which was/is very good, but because of it's significant range, speed, align time, and ability to do missions anywhere. The mach comes somewhat close in terms of ability. As it stands right now, there is still no reason not to use the tengu for what it was best for prepatch--mission blitzing to farm LP. You lost some dps (barely any tbh), and some range, which was never an issue in the first place, and now is only a minor consideration. If you want to kill bounties (lol @ the guy saying this is the proper way to mission), BS have historically, and will always be better because of the simple fact that they have higher dps than the tengu.

Unsure anyone said only killing for bounties is the proper way to mission.

Isk per hour is best to combine it all, but to say that it's best isk only farming for lp just shows the Tengu is not as great as you are making it out to be as it just can't kill stuff fast enough.

Even if all you do is blitz the Tengu is not always the best for that job, diferent ships would be optimal for some of those blitzing missions is just that a Tengu in a good compromise.

Tengu is good for what it is, a low sp friendly ship with a great tank, jack of all trades but i earn a lot more per hour with a BS even on rats which not fall over to my Ammo type than I do with a Tengu (both are pretty maxed)

I love the Tengu for what I use it for but can see it's limitations, it's advantages do not make it the optimal choice for enough missions to say it's the best at missioning.
Ginger Barbarella
#24 - 2012-12-05 18:34:07 UTC
I liked all three... Well done!! Twisted

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Ginger Barbarella
#25 - 2012-12-05 18:36:25 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Mra Rednu wrote:
---garbage snipped---

a claim is not a fact. you have to provide arguments to support it. the fact of the matter is that there are missions that are best done in a tengu, which by definition means that it is the best ship for these missions. if you are doing missions 'properly', you are probably aware that you can not only switch between blitzing and grinding but also between ship hulls.

Dude, you're being trolled. Blink Just in case you didn't see it.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#26 - 2012-12-05 18:54:54 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:
all I saw was a Heavy missile nerf.

Strange people call it a Tengu Nerf.

Considering that the Tengu uses heavy missiles the ultimate result is that the tengu is nerfed...

Stop trying to be shrewd...
Slipstick Libby
DCMI Rejects
#27 - 2012-12-06 02:59:34 UTC
funny CCP only ever nerfs missles this makes 2 missle nerfs ive played through .

for the people who say Tengu is no longer a good mission boat you are STUPID. the reason missle boats are good is not their range or dps. its that they ALWAYS hit. Gunboats miss.

before nerf scourge heavy missle 116km range 601dps after nerf 88km range 555.7 dps
before nerf scourge fury 106km range 790.3 dps after nerf 66km range 749.1 dps
that was a good nerf but i know you can do better CCP

TENGU STILL OWNS lvl 4 missions

Swing the bat again CCP im eagerly awaiting the messages your scourge fury missed the target now you are balanced with gunboats :)~~

just a note to "ccp" you cant seem to understand the old saying " if it aint broke, DON'T FIX IT."

Slipstick Libby

P.S. Troll away i know you will and i'll just laugh at you lifeless losers
Bloody Wench
#28 - 2012-12-06 07:43:00 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
[quote=Bloody Wench]You're wrong on just about everything here, so that deserves a :golfclap:

a Tengu will only pull off 542

Both my Tengu toons do 720 dps who knows what crap you're flying.

[u]**Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: **[/u]  CCP should not only make local delayed in highsec, but they should also require one be undocked to use it. Then, even the local spammers have some skin in the game. Support a High Resolution Texture Pack

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