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Drones are wet paper bags now

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#21 - 2012-12-05 07:41:48 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

I mean sure some other ships use the much cried about Heavy Missiles, but those are the big ones. Unless chaps are still ratting in Caracals.


My alt does!

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Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-12-05 07:53:27 UTC
Andski wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Use drone HP rigs.


"but then I won't be cap stable!!!!"

Heh. I would say bring a friend to feed you cap, but we both know what the answer to that one is. In all honesty I have zero remorse for mission runners who are thrown for a loop by the AI change. They have enjoyed almost 10 years of missions being laid out in the exact same format and a little bit of drone damage sends them over the edge? Pathetic. If anything they should be thanking CCP like crazy considering they will be less plagued with ninja salvagers, mind numbing game play, mind numbing game play, mind numbing game play and mind numbing game play.

God I wish I could design a new system for how missions would work. No mission would ever be the same. Close as possible PvP situations. Solo mission grinding would be the worst way to make ISK/hour. Mission runners would be far more informed on game mechanics and scenarios when it comes to PvP. Then they would not run from risk and combat and glory but embrace it!

*sigh*

If only. Sad
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#23 - 2012-12-05 08:05:27 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
All those tears are so delicious CCP. Good job with expansion.


Well people will stop doing missions and move to incursions.
Missions will become abandoned and ccp will ask themselves if new npc ai was necessary.
People are making isk for pvp ships from missions, but now that missions are nerfed and acting the same way as incursions, why not do incursions instead ?
Veinnail
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-12-05 08:09:12 UTC
the isk isn't even that good from soloing L4s.
Matthew97
#25 - 2012-12-05 08:26:01 UTC
Here's an idea:

Stop AFK running Missions

Stop Using drones



The AI on bucky when I was running tests with a Domi was fine, they rarely aggro'd drones and when I noticed that they had lost lock on me, I just re-called them, waited a few seconds, and re-deployed.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#26 - 2012-12-05 08:33:02 UTC
But what about the clause in the eula that says missions can only ever be buffed, never nerfed?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
ihcn
Life. Universe. Everything.
#27 - 2012-12-05 08:48:27 UTC
Spc One wrote:

3. Hurricane got nerfed so it is kinda useless now

Lmao please keep making awful posts that show off how bad you are at this game

All my vagacane fits still work 100% unmodified despite the powergrid hit
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#28 - 2012-12-05 09:13:20 UTC
Spc One wrote:
What patch notes don't tell you:

EXPANSION ABOUT NERFS, Because Missiles were ok for 6 years now but now they're overpowered.

a.) PVE

1. All missile ships are now obsolete (very low range and decreased damage)
2. All Drone ships are now obsolete due to new AI (your drones get targeted as soon as you deploy them)
3. All ships that rely on drones for protection against frigates are obsolete
4. NPC's tracking disruptor now affects optimal range and falloff instead of just optimal range, which makes 800mm's minmatar ships obsolete in pve.
5. All npc complexes and ark missions are now insanely hard to do, you can't use drones
6. There are only few ships that can save you from mission if you loose all of your drones and get stuck (scrambled with npc agression).
7. New meta 9 - 14 drone modules are obsolete for pve, since ai will always shoot your drones.
8. If you use marauders or other ships for guristas missions you'll get perma jammed, there's nothing you can do since you can't use drones.

b). PVP
1. All Heavy Missile ships are now obsolete
2. Drake is worst battlecruiser for pvp
3. Hurricane got nerfed so it is kinda useless now
4. Tengu now sucks compared to other t-3's
5. Very hard to gank someone ratting in low sec or 0.0 with stealth bombers or frigate since npc's will switch targets



Lets see...

PvE:

1. Golem, Raven, any ship that uses HAM's or Rockets. These all just got a nice buff making them far from useless.
2. If you literally only ever relied on drones to complete a mission you were doing it wrong anyway.
3. See above.
4. Don't fly anymore so can't comment.
5. Oh noes, things aren't easy peasy ISK printers now? That's a shame. How about you adapt?
6. As with numbers 2 and 3. You seem to be stuck in a logic loop at this point.
7. AI always shot at your drones, now they do it a little more. Drones mods are still effective, please adapt.
8. I don't even...How about not accepting the mission? Or I don't know.......take someone with you!! Would you like your nose wiped as well as your hand held?

As for the PvP side of things I am less knowledgeable and therefore not qualified to make definitive statements. But considering your "Facts" I don't think I can do any worse.

1. This is called rebalancing. People used FOTM, it gets balanced, people switch to new FOTM and so on. See a pattern?
2. See above.
3. Please qualify your assertion with some actual facts. I fly the Hurricane and it seems to work just fine for me. Adapt.
4. This is just a stupid comment. I also fly a maxed out HAMgu, believe me, it is far from useless.
5. Awww, you mean you might have to work for your kills now? That's a crying shame.....Roll


In summation, it appears you have no idea what game you are playing.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Cambion Andedare
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-12-05 09:17:30 UTC
Matthew97 wrote:
Here's an idea:

Stop AFK running Missions

Stop Using drones



The AI on bucky when I was running tests with a Domi was fine, they rarely aggro'd drones and when I noticed that they had lost lock on me, I just re-called them, waited a few seconds, and re-deployed.

And that behaviour was clearly mentioned as a bug by developers and is not how it works now on TQ.
Sahjahn
Pyke Syndicate
Solyaris Chtonium
#30 - 2012-12-05 09:21:12 UTC
+1

It is a bit rediculous at the minute, try running level 5s, fighters dieing also in seconds as 20 BS and 20 BC instantly target and unleash hell, the frigates scramming and webbing them mean you've no chance to recall them so they die.

I really hope CCP reconsiders this and allows us to use drones/fighters in missions again.
Dasola
New Edens Freeports
#31 - 2012-12-05 09:22:12 UTC
I for one welcome this change to new AI. I always find it little imersion disturbing that npc are so dump they dont shoot drone thats more bangerous to them then battleship that player is flying... So i welcome this smartingup npc´s a bit... All we need now is npc ability to flee from fight, set up repair docks, etc...

We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...
ihcn
Life. Universe. Everything.
#32 - 2012-12-05 09:25:28 UTC
Sahjahn wrote:
+1

It is a bit rediculous at the minute, try running level 5s, fighters dieing also in seconds as 20 BS and 20 BC instantly target and unleash hell, the frigates scramming and webbing them mean you've no chance to recall them so they die.

I really hope CCP reconsiders this and allows us to use drones/fighters in missions again.

fyi people who run wspace sites have dealt with this for 3 years and they seem to be getting by ok
Thelma Thunderfanny
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-12-05 09:26:36 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Eterne
Wouldn't know... still using my 'nerfed' Tengu which still appears to be completing level 4's in around the same time and just as efficiently. You know, the one everyone said was going to be **** post patch?

**** drones.

Please censor all profanity - CCP Eterne

o_O
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-12-05 09:31:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyla Skin
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
All those tears are so delicious CCP. Good job with expansion.



Your tears are delicious

ihcn wrote:

All my vagacane fits still work 100% unmodified despite the powergrid hit


They had a powergrid hit?

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#35 - 2012-12-05 09:34:32 UTC
Just a suggestion when you are being jammed.

In the case of a missile user, use FoF's, they work pretty well for the purpose. Very underutilised. They may not pack the punch of non-FoF's, but they get the job done. FoF missiles on lvl5 actually mean something now.

Turret users being jammed - other than using sensor boosters, I have no suggestions to make.

o7


COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2012-12-05 09:40:46 UTC
Haven't tested this and never relied on drones, also never afk missioned, i was always kite n snipe.
BUT
Tougher NPCs force players to either make a little less isk/hr, or engage the help of other players/alts.
Both of which are ok by me.

Worlds Collide, where you get dropped into a bunch of Serp scrammers? That could prove impossible if you can't use pest control drones to get the points n webs off before the dps stacks up. Got a faction fitted mach out with 12% structure from that one when the Serps were still HURR zombies, if they really are drone eaters like sleepers that one L4 mission might demand a major fitting juggle for that one room.
Meh, hate mission running, just sayin.

Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Doddy
Excidium.
#37 - 2012-12-05 09:43:30 UTC
I haven't lost any drones yet, i think you guys are doing it wrong.
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-12-05 09:44:13 UTC
Rensari wrote:
I was doing the mission.


There's your problem
Konrad Kane
#39 - 2012-12-05 09:45:03 UTC
I dropped my drone ratting ship and any training I was planning for drones the moment CCP announced the AI change. It was pretty obvious that drones we're going to be much harder work in ratting than they are worth.

It's not the target switching that's the issue. It's that the drone UI is so awful that you can't tell what's targeting them and what with. If the drone UI allowed you to see what ships where targeting them you'd have much more information to deal with the change.

Once the drone UI is improved drones will be worth the effort again.

Top tip - switch ships.
Bing Khagah
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-12-05 09:47:05 UTC

"2. If you literally only ever relied on drones to complete a mission you were doing it wrong anyway."

So they weren't a primary weapon system?

"fyi people who run wspace sites have dealt with this for 3 years and they seem to be getting by ok "

Their content was designed from the ground up with this AI in mind. Missions were not.