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NPC Tracking Disruption Feedback

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Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#1 - 2012-12-04 17:27:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Turelus
*UPDATED 26TH MARCH 2013*

New Patch Released
Quote:
Some NPCs (mostly Sansha) use their tracking disruptor again less often. The tank of some NPCs is also slightly weaker now.


*OLD INFORMATION*

CCP Ytterbium has made a post commenting that CCP have been following the threads and issues reported but are looking for bug reports to do with the issues. LINK HERE

From what was said it looks more like CCP are happy with how strong TD effects are and are looking more for information of NPCs which are not behaving correctly. I will make a comment on his post shortly and see if that can be confirmed.

From the feedback still coming in from people the current issues are still:
- NPC Tracking Disruption effects being applied even while no icons are show (rumoured to be Battleships only)
- NPC Tracking Disruption is being allied from ranged far outside what ships can fight back in.
- NPC Tracking Disruption cycles are too long and the time before it's reapplied too short (in effect being perma-disrupted)
- Stacking of NPC Tracking Disruption is too strong meaning as few as three ships can cripple a ship.

In the last patch CCP attempted to fix the issues with Tracking Disruption from NPCs
Quote:
Corrected the chance percentage that an enemy NPC will use tracking disruption on a player's ship.

While they no longer "perma-ewar" feedback after this update seems to suggest that NPC Battleships are still managing to apply their TD debuff while no longer running the module.
There are also complaints that the stacking of these modules is far too strong meaning as few as two NPC TD's can cripple a turret based ship.

On a more broad note there seems to be a strong outcry within the PVE community for a look at NPC EWAR as a whole.

*ORIGINAL POST*

Living in Providence all of my PVE is done vs Sansha NPCs so it didn't take long to notice the new TD changes.

The patch notes read
Quote:

Fix Tracking Disruption on NPCs so that it is now correctly applied to your ship.


I'm looking for feedback from other players who are doing PVE against Sansha NPCS and how the Tracking Disruptor changes have effected them.
I would like to hear from players doing missions with large numbers of Sansha ships (such as The Blockade) and how hard the effects are.

Below is a link to an example of what two Sansha Battleships can do to a Nightmare (max skills) using a single Tracking Enhancer II.
Pretty Pictures

More cases and feedback can be found in this GD thread. LINK

In the experience I have had it's almost impossible to run Sansha Anomalies using laser fit ships and expect good DPS.
(Beam lasers and Aurora seem to be the only chance to hit if the NPCs pull range)
While attempted to kill three Battlecruisers in a belt I was disrupted down to an optimal of 11km using Scorch while the NPCs orbited at around 30km. (making it impossible to land blows)

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Arcosian
Arcosian Heavy Industries Corp Holding
#2 - 2012-12-04 17:32:45 UTC
Was reduced to a 8km optimal on my Tach Paladin with 2TC with scripts while running a hub. Was perma TD by 4 elite cruisers and thanks to the drone aggro couldn't kill them with drones either. What? Looks like nullsec sansha space will become a no man's land pretty soon for anoms.

As for L4 sansha blockade that will be impossible now since there is a spawn with 6 TD elite cruisers.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-12-04 17:38:55 UTC
It was the same last time they changed NPC e-war, and it took something like 1-2 weeks of forum whining before they got around to fixing it.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#4 - 2012-12-04 17:40:18 UTC
Marauders need a buff, because I swear its the most annoying thing getting ECM'd in a pally, so easy to jam it, Make it stop!
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#5 - 2012-12-04 17:46:55 UTC
dexington wrote:
It was the same last time they changed NPC e-war, and it took something like 1-2 weeks of forum whining before they got around to fixing it.

I remember the horror that was the NPC ECM buff. I'm somewhat hopping this will be the same where they didn't realise how bad it would be. I'm hoping we can get enough examples and feedback to convince them though.

Kara Books wrote:
Marauders need a buff, because I swear its the most annoying thing getting ECM'd in a pally, so easy to jam it, Make it stop!

This topic is to talk about Tracking Disruption though.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#6 - 2012-12-05 06:46:29 UTC
Any more updates on this?

I find it hard to believe no one else is suffering the issues that have been had,

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-12-05 07:01:24 UTC
Turelus wrote:
Any more updates on this?

I find it hard to believe no one else is suffering the issues that have been had,


Stop whining - adopt, brainless computer program is beating you , what does it say about you ?
Nicolai Xperte
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-12-05 07:07:41 UTC
Even pre-patch any turreted ship (exception Auto-Cannons) was hard to over-come the bombardment of TD's from some Sansha Missions. Even with a Meta4 Tachyon Beam with Navy Radio on Blockade I was gimped down to measly 20km but my Fall-Off remained at its normal range. I can run Blockade in my Sleipner using T2 425's with Barrage and get the orgy of TD's but I would still be hitting them at max dmg within my fall-off range. I just think if they have buffed the TD's (NPC) given that Beams/Pulses have horrible tracking speed the sheer effect of that alone just makes any non-ac turret just useless, imho.

I don't always bring out my Absolution.

But when I do it makes the Blue's rage, lol.
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#9 - 2012-12-05 07:08:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Turelus
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
Turelus wrote:
Any more updates on this?

I find it hard to believe no one else is suffering the issues that have been had,


Stop whining - adopt, brainless computer program is beating you , what does it say about you ?

There is little one can do to adapt to this change other than move over to missile ships.

The screenshot shows three NPC ships Disrupting an optimal range of 50km down to 9km, with 11km falloff.
There have been situations where this has happened and the NPCs will orbit you at 40km meaning you CAN'T hit them with lasers using the longest range ammo.

There have been worse cases reported. Currently the only way to "adapt" is to never use gun ships when flying solo against Sansha NPCs

While I am sure you just wanted to make a nice little snipe, I will thank you for the free bump.

Nicolai Xperte wrote:
Even pre-patch any turreted ship (exception Auto-Cannons) was hard to over-come the bombardment of TD's from some Sansha Missions. Even with a Meta4 Tachyon Beam with Navy Radio on Blockade I was gimped down to measly 20km but my Fall-Off remained at its normal range. I can run Blockade in my Sleipner using T2 425's with Barrage and get the orgy of TD's but I would still be hitting them at max dmg within my fall-off range. I just think if they have buffed the TD's (NPC) given that Beams/Pulses have horrible tracking speed the sheer effect of that alone just makes any non-ac turret just useless, imho.


This is pretty much how it is going, there is little to no chance of scoring a hit using lasers verses NPC Tracking Disruption.
Which is somewhat amusing considering they would be the favoured weapon for fighting them normally.

I am not asking CCP for a complete rollback but I do believe they need to look at just how strong they currently are and how they're stacking.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Nicolai Xperte
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-12-05 07:25:33 UTC
Nicolai Xperte wrote:
Even pre-patch any turreted ship (exception Auto-Cannons) was hard to over-come the bombardment of TD's from some Sansha Missions. Even with a Meta4 Tachyon Beam with Navy Radio on Blockade I was gimped down to measly 20km but my Fall-Off remained at its normal range. I can run Blockade in my Sleipner using T2 425's with Barrage and get the orgy of TD's but I would still be hitting them at max dmg within my fall-off range. I just think if they have buffed the TD's (NPC) given that Beams/Pulses have horrible tracking speed the sheer effect of that alone just makes any non-ac turret just useless, imho.


This is pretty much how it is going, there is little to no chance of scoring a hit using lasers verses NPC Tracking Disruption.
Which is somewhat amusing considering they would be the favoured weapon for fighting them normally.

I am not asking CCP for a complete rollback but I do believe they need to look at just how strong they currently are and how they're stacking.[/quote]

Ya, I know that feel bro X
I can understand maybe a few TD's at intervals or at certain durations but sometimes they just perma run the TD's and that sucks. Idk if you remember that they had looked into TD's also affecting missiles so I bet if they had started affecting the 1000's of CNR/Golem pilots there would be alot more rage about it but since it doesn't they don't have anything to say about it. BTW an unscripted TD module does affect All 3 aspects of a turret Tracking Speed, Optimal Range, and Falloff but yet NPC only 2 out of 3 which is weird, lol.

I don't always bring out my Absolution.

But when I do it makes the Blue's rage, lol.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-12-05 08:05:26 UTC
Have anyone tried training the new anti-ewar skills?, i know it's a long shot... but it might help.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#12 - 2012-12-05 08:16:12 UTC
dexington wrote:
Have anyone tried training the new anti-ewar skills?, i know it's a long shot... but it might help.

Doesn't help vs Tracking Disruption only ECM.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Nicolai Xperte
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-12-05 09:25:21 UTC
dexington wrote:
Have anyone tried training the new anti-ewar skills?, i know it's a long shot... but it might help.



New? Please explain.

I don't always bring out my Absolution.

But when I do it makes the Blue's rage, lol.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-12-05 09:30:00 UTC
did sansha version of pi today in a nightmare. got TDed by two BSs. had to burn into ~20k range to start doing damage.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#15 - 2012-12-05 09:43:59 UTC
Nicolai Xperte wrote:
dexington wrote:
Have anyone tried training the new anti-ewar skills?, i know it's a long shot... but it might help.

New? Please explain.

New skills to defend against ECM.
Patch Notes wrote:

Radar Sensor Compensation, Gravimetric Sensor Compensation, Magnetometric Sensor Compensation and Ladar Sensor Compensation skills have been added to the market for 180000 ISK each

These increase their specific sensor strength by 4% per level
All rank 2
Electronics Level IV prerequisite
Primary attribute is intelligence, with memory as secondary


Other than that please try and stay on topic about TDs

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Sturmwolke
#16 - 2012-12-05 10:00:32 UTC
I don't get it. Sansha TDs have always been crippling for L4s - meaning pulse lasers are almost next to useless.
That's why beams/tachs are always recommended as they can still do dmg with their extended falloff (which aren't affected by NPC TDs).

So you're telling us Sansha plex/0.0 rats have ineffective TDs before Retribution?
About time they fixed it Smile
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#17 - 2012-12-05 11:08:19 UTC
dexington wrote:
It was the same last time they changed NPC e-war, and it took something like 1-2 weeks of forum whining before they got around to fixing it.

Excuse me, what did they actually fix? Just yesterday I've run Serpentis Blockade and upon second spawn I was permanently reduced to 15-20km locking range until I killed but last EWAR cruiser.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-12-05 11:20:58 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
dexington wrote:
It was the same last time they changed NPC e-war, and it took something like 1-2 weeks of forum whining before they got around to fixing it.

Excuse me, what did they actually fix? Just yesterday I've run Serpentis Blockade and upon second spawn I was permanently reduced to 15-20km locking range until I killed but last EWAR cruiser.


I was referring to the npc ewar changes that was part of the Incursion patch, in caldari space you would be permanently jammed if there was 3 or more ewar ships on grid. What got fixed/rebalanced, and if there is a problem with the sansha TD's, it's going to get fixed as well.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#19 - 2012-12-05 11:23:57 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
dexington wrote:
It was the same last time they changed NPC e-war, and it took something like 1-2 weeks of forum whining before they got around to fixing it.

Excuse me, what did they actually fix? Just yesterday I've run Serpentis Blockade and upon second spawn I was permanently reduced to 15-20km locking range until I killed but last EWAR cruiser.

Tracking Disruptor's were changed (Sansha NPCs) not all EWAR.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#20 - 2012-12-05 11:27:13 UTC
dexington wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:
dexington wrote:
It was the same last time they changed NPC e-war, and it took something like 1-2 weeks of forum whining before they got around to fixing it.

Excuse me, what did they actually fix? Just yesterday I've run Serpentis Blockade and upon second spawn I was permanently reduced to 15-20km locking range until I killed but last EWAR cruiser.


I was referring to the npc ewar changes that was part of the Incursion patch, in caldari space you would be permanently jammed if there was 3 or more ewar ships on grid. What got fixed/rebalanced, and if there is a problem with the sansha TD's, it's going to get fixed as well.

OK, if jammers are less PITA then more power to you. What I was referring to is that dampeners are still major problem both before and after Retribution. If tracking disruptors are already brought in line with them, then I'm afraid it will take earthquake to move CCP from their position. But I'd love to be proven wrong.
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