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Sleipnir or Machariel?
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Scarlett Anstian
Neverstar
#1 - 2011-10-21 11:31:10 UTC
Currently doing missions in a armour fit Loki (fail I know) but have been training up shields recently. At the moment it isn't that great but I am hoping a shield fit will make it a lot more enjoyable.

Basically asking your opinions on what I should train for to do lvl 4 missions more effectively. The two choices I present to you are the Machariel or the Sleipnir P

Now the Machariel is bad-ass, everyone knows it but I have not trained up to Battleship yet and wanted to create a character that never makes that jump. Just specializing on everything below to improve my pvp ships at the same time.

The Sleipnir requires more training but at the end of it I will be improving my BC. This is good because the Winter Expansion is rumoured to be bringing 4 new BC ships to the game and I want to fly them Lol

So how does a Sleipnir rate in lvl 4 missions? Am I going to appreciate the Leadership skills I will invest my time into getting? Is the Machariel too amazing to not train for?

Thanks in advance guys, and as ever +1 to all good contributing posts Blink
Vic Tenrach
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-10-21 12:34:38 UTC
I ran an AC Sleipnir mission boat for a while, and it certainly worked. Strong tank, decent gank... BUT, range was always a problem. I would spend a lot of time getting into range. I switched to an Artillery setup Sleipnir, and it did better, even though paper DPS was less. Range was still a bit of an issue though, and I found myself still having to motor around before I could press F1.

After I got the prerequisites trained, I promptly upgraded to the Vargur, and haven't looked back. Once I get around to cross-training, I'll give the Machariel a try as well.
Scarlett Anstian
Neverstar
#3 - 2011-10-21 12:42:41 UTC
Vic Tenrach wrote:
I ran an AC Sleipnir mission boat for a while, and it certainly worked. Strong tank, decent gank... BUT, range was always a problem. I would spend a lot of time getting into range. I switched to an Artillery setup Sleipnir, and it did better, even though paper DPS was less. Range was still a bit of an issue though, and I found myself still having to motor around before I could press F1.

After I got the prerequisites trained, I promptly upgraded to the Vargur, and haven't looked back. Once I get around to cross-training, I'll give the Machariel a try as well.

So would you suggest that I first make the jump to Battleships then instead of cross training go straight to gearing up for the Vargur?
Vic Tenrach
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2011-10-21 13:01:26 UTC
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
Vic Tenrach wrote:
I ran an AC Sleipnir mission boat for a while, and it certainly worked. Strong tank, decent gank... BUT, range was always a problem. I would spend a lot of time getting into range. I switched to an Artillery setup Sleipnir, and it did better, even though paper DPS was less. Range was still a bit of an issue though, and I found myself still having to motor around before I could press F1.

After I got the prerequisites trained, I promptly upgraded to the Vargur, and haven't looked back. Once I get around to cross-training, I'll give the Machariel a try as well.

So would you suggest that I first make the jump to Battleships then instead of cross training go straight to gearing up for the Vargur?


To be honest, I don't know what I would suggest. :P I just wanted to relay my experiences with the Sleipnir.

I have taken the Sleipnir into a few Incursions, and while it was quick to find a fleet, I was never made a booster, even with the Skirmish link to improve web range fitted. If you have the chance to actual use the fleet bonuses of the Command Ship, it would certainly help the webbers in your fleet, but again, be aware that range will be an issue. I switched to a DPS Maelstrom because I would often have to sit idle in the Sleipnir, unable to target or engage the tagged targets :(
Solomar Espersei
Quality Assurance
#5 - 2011-10-21 13:07:57 UTC
Maelstrom for you my friend.

One of the best ships in the game, very versatile, a fine stepping-stone toward either Mach or Varg, and once you can fit it properly, it will make the Loki look pretty bad at Lv 4s.

Quality Assurance Recruiting intrepid explorers and BlOps/Cov Ops combat enthusiasts
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-10-21 13:19:58 UTC
Solomar Espersei wrote:
Maelstrom for you my friend.

One of the best ships in the game, very versatile, a fine stepping-stone toward either Mach or Varg, and once you can fit it properly, it will make the Loki look pretty bad at Lv 4s.


dont listen to Solomar, he is a sneaky ninja!!

you definitely want to use a Blaster fit Eagle....totally

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Scarlett Anstian
Neverstar
#7 - 2011-10-21 13:24:15 UTC
Solomar Espersei wrote:
Maelstrom for you my friend.

One of the best ships in the game, very versatile, a fine stepping-stone toward either Mach or Varg, and once you can fit it properly, it will make the Loki look pretty bad at Lv 4s.

Ok Maelstrom it is then Big smile

A little worried about when I should jump into one. My friend said I should just use prototype guns, but I have only recently started training up for shields.

Right now I have ...

- Shield Management IV
- Shield Operation IV
- Shield Upgrades IV
- Tactical Shield Manipulation IV
- Shield Compensation IV

Good enough to fly into a lvl 4 with a Maelstrom fitted with prototype weapons? Or is that a big risk X
Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#8 - 2011-10-21 13:32:48 UTC
Been a while since I have skilled up my shield skills, but if you have enough skills to T2 tank fit it and enough cap skills to maintain a tank long enough to clear the baddies then you are good to go.

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-10-21 14:33:59 UTC
Machariel is probably the best mission ship out there, with the exception of the nightmare on em//therm missions.
If you can afford and fit one, do so.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Goose99
#10 - 2011-10-21 14:51:31 UTC
Shield skills isn't the issue. Armor loki has pretty much the same effectiveness as shield - both are poor for lvl4s. Just with TEs replaced by TCs. Same goes for armor Mach - it's a ship with 7 lows. For Maelstrom, shield is mandatory though.

Slipneir is poor for lvl4s, slightly more effective than Loki, sometimes less, depending on mission. It has the same range problems, a bit more dps, but slower speed, which amplifies the fundamental range problem in some missions. Despite what you see on AT videos, it's not as popular a choice for small gang pvps in the wild. It's a bit slow and expensive for that.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#11 - 2011-10-21 16:59:57 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Machariel is probably the best mission ship out there, with the exception of the nightmare on em//therm missions.
If you can afford and fit one, do so.


even on em/therm missions it's a close call, especially if slowboating to jumpgates is involved.

just get a mach and enjoy 15mil bounty ticks.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Solomar Espersei
Quality Assurance
#12 - 2011-10-21 17:07:21 UTC
If you can fit T2 shd hrdnrs & T2 drones you're good to go with a begginer fit Mael (assuming Matari BS to 4). Fit Meta 3 Arty and wait until you get T2 large AC. I think the 1400s are a bit too tough for newbies and think you'll have more success by sizing down.

Quality Assurance Recruiting intrepid explorers and BlOps/Cov Ops combat enthusiasts
Solomar Espersei
Quality Assurance
#13 - 2011-10-21 17:15:03 UTC
LOL @ Skapper.

No harm in some innocent banter with the other side.

Quality Assurance Recruiting intrepid explorers and BlOps/Cov Ops combat enthusiasts
Kush Monster
Big Tobacco
#14 - 2011-10-21 19:41:34 UTC
I LOVE, ******* LOVE my macharial!!!!!! Plows through LVL 4's and Null rats with ease.

I loved it so much, I bought a second one...

With that being said though, the sleipnir is an absolute beast! It costs a quarter of a mach to fit up and if you lose it you aren't sticking your neck out so far.

I am currently in training for a sleip but until that day, I am using my machs to do my bidding.

Get into a Mach ASAP then train for a sleip is my advice.

Being able to run lvl 4's with ease is worth every isk I shelled out for the macharial... plus its the best looking ship in the game!

How to make mining enjoyable: An Autocannon, Faction Ammo, Your Mouth
Kush Monster
Big Tobacco
#15 - 2011-10-21 19:43:48 UTC
Solomar Espersei wrote:
If you can fit T2 shd hrdnrs & T2 drones you're good to go with a begginer fit Mael (assuming Matari BS to 4). Fit Meta 3 Arty and wait until you get T2 large AC. I think the 1400s are a bit too tough for newbies and think you'll have more success by sizing down.



I had very bad luck in a maelstrom compared to my mach.

I tried a 1400 and 800mm fit with no luck. I had SOME success in it but I wasn't able to tank as well as my mach and the falloff range is what killed it for me.

The falloff on your 800's is around 30-40k Anyone further out than that you won't be able to hit.

In the mach, my falloff is like 70k, so I can hit up to that no problem. REAAAAAALy makes a world of difference.

How to make mining enjoyable: An Autocannon, Faction Ammo, Your Mouth
Zillam Reynardine
Stargazer Holdings
#16 - 2011-10-21 22:07:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Zillam Reynardine
I'm currently running a shieldtanked AC Sleipnir. Melts faces and doesnt afraid of anything. 40km with Barrage, but I prefer to use appropriate ammo for the appropriate enemy, so more often I'm shooting inside of 25km.

I'm fifteen days away from mounting T2 large autos on a Machariel... and an untold sum of ISK away from the ship and the fit I've got in mind. But it, too, shall melt faces at 40km (or better, since I only have Min/Gal BS III right now)... and that's with RF EMP.

So my answer is both! There's plenty of fitting and skill cross-over between the Sleipnir and the Machariel (esp. if you're shieldtanking both).

ETA: Although, objectively speaking, the Machariel is better. It does more damage, can take more damage (omnitank, whee~), can do it at a better range, can do it faster (I think; I forget the ROF difference), and moves faster than the Sleipnir.

The Sleipnir's advantage is that it is massively cheaper, so you don't lose as much money when it inevitably explodes. Skills-wise, it takes roughly the same amount of time as the Machariel (if you're skilling to "fly properly" and not just "fly").
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2011-10-21 23:11:40 UTC
Don't use a Sleipnir for missions and stuff. Use a Machariel.

The Machariel's tank is thin, I agree.

Though, its guns are pure awesomness. You can hit frigates since they burn straight at you (If you're at like 40km, you'll oneshot every frigates. Really. That changes it all). You can **** BCs in 2 shots, you're faster than everything (As fast as a Tengu, faster than any other battleships, faster than most battlecruisers). And you still deal a solid 1200 DPS at 60km at least (with shortrange ammo, so phased plasma or EMP).

It's just not comparable.

The only thing that may be a problem is the tank. It's enough for most missions and nullsec anomalies (I'm running anomalies, but I did missions in the past, I had no problems except on Smash the Supplier, because of the EM damage of Amarrs).

Between the Vargur and the Machariel, I would say, the Vargur wins. Almost the same DPS (And you can actually use faction ammo on the Vargur, you have 4 turrets instead of 7, so it doesn't recquire shitloads of ammo), better tracking, the range is just fine (59 instead of 69, definetly working for me), the tank is really better, but you're slower, and it recquire more skills. And that's pretty much it.

Also, it can salvage stuff, which is pretty good for missionning purposes.

Also, when it comes to PVP...Hey, the Machariel is a pure beast.
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-10-22 00:00:03 UTC
Sleip for high sec and Machariel for low.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#19 - 2011-10-22 00:20:49 UTC
Mekhana wrote:
Sleip for high sec and Machariel for low.


Buh? Why would you prefer a Sleip in high sec?

By the by, the DPS at range numbers in the last few posts are almost criminally insane for both ships. A Sleipnir with high damage ammo has an effective engagement range of, oh, about 30km (where it gets a rather poor 350ish DPS) down to something like 900m (over 750 DPS). Barrage doesn't push you much past 40km at best (again, ~350 DPS). This all adds up to an engagement envelope not much better than a large blaster ship -- albeit with more range control. It is not an ideal PvE ship. It does work.

On the flip side, a Mach with short range ammo does ~500 DPS at 60km. At 30km, the effective edge of the Sleipnir's engagement range, it's pushing out ~840 DPS. And in my experience it does fine tracking BC and above down to about 5km (at which point you could, you know, actually bother to pilot it). And just to add insult to injury, those Sleip numbers were using faction ammo and the Mach wasn't. Oh, and it deserves mentioning -- again -- that the Mach is actually faster and more agile.

So yes, the Machariel is a much, much, much better ship.
Zillam Reynardine
Stargazer Holdings
#20 - 2011-10-22 00:36:21 UTC
Sleipnir can pop frigs inside of 7km (and that's not even using depleted uranium). Then again, Mach has drones for dealing with frigs. (But then again then again, so does the Sleipnir.)

I don't get why people are saying that the Mach's tank is thin. I've got a fit that has 564hps (on paper, of course) omni, 476hps vs. EM/therm (50/50). Sure, it needs a set of Crystals, but it's a hisec missioning fit. vOv
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