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Why do I have 3 accounts exactly?
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Joker Dronemaster
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-12-05 00:31:44 UTC
So I tried running a level 4 to get familiar with the new AI and noticed something. Send one account into the mission in a tank Tech 3 and activate guns/ganglinks, it grabs aggro immediately. Warp in the second account in a battleship and as soon as I start targeting something 2/3rds of the room starts hitting it........ Didn't fire a single shot or activate a single mod. Is it supposed to be like this? I was excited when CCP Foxfour mentioned they wanted to give to tools to control NPC agression. I took this to mean, we would be able to reliably keep rats shooting one ship. Its going to take me months to properly train into a Tengu, at which point my alts are pretty much worthless.

Not to mention the Black Ops/Cloaky T3/ Scanner ship combo I spent months training for is now completely boned.

I'm really hoping this is simply a bug that will get hot-fixed shortly.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#2 - 2012-12-05 00:53:22 UTC
Yes, it is supposed to be like that. NPC prefer to hit targets their own size.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-12-05 01:24:05 UTC
Combat NPCs shooting you?!?!?
SH*T SAY IT AINT SO!!!!!

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

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Joker Dronemaster
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-12-05 01:47:15 UTC
I was under the impression the NPCs were going to shoot targets based to how much "threat" they were generating. Which was modified by the difference in their sizes.

IE if given the choice of 2 targets a cruiser and a battleship.

Cruiser is killing things so the rats try to kill it

Battleship is sitting doing nothing............ Its not a threat and will not be targeted as long as the cruiser is there.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2012-12-05 03:15:17 UTC
If it is anything like WH AI, ewar (ECM, WEB, etc) on the rats will increase that ships chance of being primary, but they will still switch.
Souxie Alduin
Anarchy in the Eve
#6 - 2012-12-05 03:21:56 UTC
Joker Dronemaster wrote:


....Stuff....

Is it supposed to be like this? I was excited when CCP Foxfour mentioned they wanted to give to tools to control NPC agression. I took this to mean, we would be able to reliably keep rats shooting one ship. Its going to take me months to properly train into a Tengu, at which point my alts are pretty much worthless.

Not to mention the Black Ops/Cloaky T3/ Scanner ship combo I spent months training for is now completely boned.

I'm really hoping this is simply a bug that will get hot-fixed shortly.


Sooo.. You want the AI to still be stupid and predictable because you misunderstood the coming changes and wasted months of training? And if nothing is done about this your only choice is to spend even more months training into a tengu?
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#7 - 2012-12-05 03:27:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Wait...one of your second accounts can fly battleships already, but rather than simply toss some tank on the BS, you're training it into a tengu? Dafuq?

And what on earth were you using a cloaky/probey T3 for in missions? Or in sites for that matter?

thhief ghabmoef
Joker Dronemaster
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-12-05 05:06:17 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Hey guys, I have been a bit silent here and for that I apologize. An update on where we stand with the AI changes:


  • As it stands we are still going ahead with pushing the change to TQ.
  • While the change did not make it to the current version on Buckingham I have lowered the drone hate of the AI some more.
  • While we consider the fact that the AI will only shoot your first flight of drones (this is based on specific criteria such as sig radius) and not a second wave to be a defect, we are not publishing the fix with Retribution.
  • After Retribution we will be making a change to the AI so that they only consider damage being dealt to them as something to increase a targets threat. That way when you warp in to kill someone running an anomaly shooting the player does not make the NPC hate you.
  • Also after Retribution, and on the same topic as the previous point, we will be making it so that unless you do something like shoot the NPC or repair a player the NPC won't take your signature radius into account when evaluating targets. Even with the above change without this one frigates would still switch targets.


Now as I am sure many of you are wondering why we have been silent in this thread it is because we found a defect with NPC, nothing to do with the AI, that we decided needed to be fixed. After fixing it and realizing exactly how broken things were we decided to remove the fix until a later date when we can properly balance the content to account for this fix. We have spent the last few weeks attempting to fix the defect, figure out the risk of it, and figure out if we should delay it or the AI changes. In the end we decided to go ahead with the AI and delay the defect fix.

So yea, there is the update. I should hopefully have the lowered drone hate tested enough to put on Buckingham with the next update and will let you know when we do.


Well it looks like I was right in my immediate assumption that that this was not intended. IE A ship that has done nothing to generate threat should not be getting aggro from rats.
SOURCE Post 450: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2158421#post2158421

Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Wait...one of your second accounts can fly battleships already, but rather than simply toss some tank on the BS, you're training it into a tengu? Dafuq?

And what on earth were you using a cloaky/probey T3 for in missions? Or in sites for that matter?


Ok so the setup works like this. Sin Black Ops for DPS. Cloaky T3 for tank. And a 3rd account running around scanning down sigs and lighting covops cynos. I use this when I'm doing exploration in hostile nullsec to get around gate camps. And I was taking it into a mission for something called a "test run" to see if it was still viable with the new AI.


So yea........ Looks like I'll have to wait for a patch before hitting nullsec again.
Matthew97
#9 - 2012-12-05 08:39:30 UTC
Joker Dronemaster wrote:
[quote=CCP FoxFour]
  • Also after Retribution, and on the same topic as the previous point, we will be making it so that unless you do something like shoot the NPC or repair a player the NPC won't take your signature radius into account when evaluating targets. Even with the above change without this one frigates would still switch targets.

    • *More stuff*



    Obviously you haven't read this. Even if you don't agress you can STILL draw aggro. If you look at the way its written, if you do nothing the signature radius of the ship won't be taken into account so for example; Frigates will still agress frigates because they are similar ship class.

    If the Frigate starts shooting, then it will take into consideration the sig radius and if it can hit it or not.
    Tau Cabalander
    Retirement Retreat
    Working Stiffs
    #10 - 2012-12-05 10:19:19 UTC
    Matthew97 wrote:
    Obviously you haven't read this. Even if you don't agress you can STILL draw aggro. If you look at the way its written, if you do nothing the signature radius of the ship won't be taken into account so for example; Frigates will still agress frigates because they are similar ship class.

    If the Frigate starts shooting, then it will take into consideration the sig radius and if it can hit it or not.

    At least somebody reads well Big smile