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How many of you have NEVER left highsec? Why?
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#121 - 2012-12-04 17:46:42 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


I fixed it all by simply not even having local chat up in high sec unless I'm wardecced, there is zero need to look at local in high otherwise.


Thought like that too, then I found out WTs don't close their local chat Cool

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Nytak
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#122 - 2012-12-04 18:29:30 UTC
I enjoy PVP even though I'm not that good at it yet so I leave High Sec every weekend (usually just do a mission or something after work before bed on weekdays)... A very well fit rifter is easilly replaced with a single L4 mission in High Sec, so I'm not losing anything, just learning the ropes.

Would I leave high sec in one of my fancier ships? Heck no, not until I get better at not getting blowed up.
Norrin Ellis
Doomheim
#123 - 2012-12-04 18:58:35 UTC
Don't like treating everyone outside my clique as if we're in a blood feud. I'd rather be nice to people than shoot them, and my experience has been that most folks in highsec extend the same courtesy to me or ignore me entirely.

CEO, Venture Racing

Manager, EVE Online Hold'Em
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#124 - 2012-12-04 19:02:50 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


I fixed it all by simply not even having local chat up in high sec unless I'm wardecced, there is zero need to look at local in high otherwise.


Thought like that too, then I found out WTs don't close their local chat Cool


What does it matter what they do if you aren't war decced?
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#125 - 2012-12-04 19:06:18 UTC
What keeps me in highsec...

It's where everyone else is. Empty tracts of space where I'll just get shot by the local gank mob aren't as interesting as bustling systems full of commerce and people. I'm not interested in holding space, or flying anything bigger than a BS, so highsec is where the fun's at.
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
#126 - 2012-12-04 19:07:17 UTC
I leave high sec all the time, but I can tell you why I prefer high. There's more to do in high and more freedom. In null you have to follow alliance rules and orders. Join fleets when you are told. Dock up when you are told.

It's kind of like why, in The Matrix that one guy (Cypher?) preferred to be in the Matrix and wanted to get put back in. Even though he lived in the real world on the ship, his life was restricted. He actually had less freedom than in the Matrix.

Living in high is more like being in the Matrix. I can go to WH, low or even null space. I can pvp, mission, mine, trade, explore. In null I just do what I'm told to do and in my spare time kill rats.

No good deed goes unpunished
Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#127 - 2012-12-04 19:07:54 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
What keeps me in highsec...

It's where everyone else is. Empty tracts of space where I'll just get shot by the local gank mob aren't as interesting as bustling systems full of commerce and people. I'm not interested in holding space, or flying anything bigger than a BS, so highsec is where the fun's at.


This 100%

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#128 - 2012-12-04 19:21:14 UTC
Maxpie wrote:


It's kind of like why, in The Matrix that one guy (Cypher?) preferred to be in the Matrix and wanted to get put back in. Even though he lived in the real world on the ship, his life was restricted. He actually had less freedom than in the Matrix.


Thankfully, that guy died a horrible death Evil

Quote:

Living in high is more like being in the MatrixI can go to WH, low or even null space. I can pvp, mission, mine, trade, explore. In null I just do what I'm told to do and in my spare time kill rats.


If that's your experience, man were you in the wrong corp or alliance.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#129 - 2012-12-04 19:30:06 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:
Kimsemus wrote:
I know the Quarterly Economic Report has this statistic, but since such a disproportionately large population of the game either never leaves, or almost never leaves highsec, I wanted to ask some highsec dwellers why this was, and what were their personal reasons.

I, like everyone else, started my journey in highsec. I dabbled with industry early on, but always found myself wondering what life was like outside the "wall" of NPC protected space, living on Pikeura in Lonetrek a few jumps from Jita and 1 jump from lowsec, the temptation to explore was ever present.

It wasn't long before I found myself in lowsec, pirating before knowing what "piracy" was in EVE, and generally just flying about looking for fights. I had gotten ganked many times doing this, and started myself on a road to get better at the game and hone my skills.

Years later, I've found myself in nullsec, where I've lived almost concurrently for nearly five years. I stop through highsec a few times a year, but I feel like a foreigner wandering in a strange, dangerous place. It's funny...I feel like highsec is far more deadly than 0.0. In 0.0 it's NBSI, if you're an alliance member I can trust you, everyone else I kill. I can see my enemy and I know him and I will try to kill him before he kills me, and that is all there is to it. It is a straightforward wild west kind of scenario.

In highsec, there are enemies around every corner, hiding, waiting. They public is their shield, and you never know when a ganker is hiding among the mission runners, carebears, and industrialists. I can't relax, I always feel like I'm about to be ambushed, attacked, or walleyed in some way. I prefer the predictable hyper-violence of 0.0 over high or lowsec.

Who else feels this way? What keeps you in highsec, if you choose to stay there? I've found fortune and kills in 0.0...getting rich and murder are my main draws in this game. (Usually the two are related, war is a very profitable business for a PVPer with a modicum of business acumen).

Tell me your stories: Why highsec?


I live in Null atm and I have lived in hi-sec. If you have ever tried to get past all the gate camps to get to null you wouldnt have to ask this question. I made it a few times in a cloaky but I have seen 8 year vets not make it.


Consider changing your route. The shortest route is not always the quickest


pod express is always the fastest, and it's always only 1 jump.

Thats assuming you have made it at least once for a med or jump clone
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#130 - 2012-12-04 19:36:21 UTC
Plus also they camp the choke points. I dont get why you guys want to argue that the way to null is easy? Its not, yes it can be done but mor etimes then not bc of warp bubbles and cans in said bubbels its most times gonna end in ship loss. If your new chances are even worse. This is why people dont go there unless they blob up.

Saying its easy or because you can make it now and then doesnt change the truth that they camp the hell out of it. look at your map check the casualty report its obvious.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#131 - 2012-12-04 19:46:19 UTC
I have left high sec before.

I spent about a month in null, a month in a WH, and done some roaming in low sec.

That said though, the entertainment value in all of those just wasn't worth it.

In null sec I spent most of my time in station hiding cause no one else was going to fight, ratting belts, sitting around waiting for someone to run plexes with, and going on roam in which there was never anyone to fight.
Of the one month I spent in null sec, I came out with less isk that I went in with just due to costs of moving stuff.

Now, the month I spent in WH was fairly entertaining, but in a class 2 Wh it's not that profitable, and you can't jump into higher class WHs by yourself.

The last two weeks of my run in Wh space we had no sites spawning, so I was sitting around unable to do anything.

Now, when doing low sec roams for pvp you rarely saw anyone, and if you did, then they either quickly ran away, or they were there as bait for a much larger fleet and/or hotdrops.


My point is that reguardless of whether I'm risk averse or not, I just didn't find any entertainment value anywhere but high sec.

Sure, high sec can get monotonous, but at least I always have something to do...
Frying Doom
#132 - 2012-12-04 20:21:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Tippia wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Actually I would have thought the saner approach is to use the facts at hand, not just wild speculation.
As luck would have it, there's very little in the way of wild speculation going on there.

Quote:
As to your theory it does not include those people who are from hi-sec and where in Null during those readings.
No. It actually includes them. If they are in null at the time of the poll, then they are obviously both willing and able to leave highsec, which means they fall outside of the highseccer category. They are not part in the (erroneously) self-professed highsec majority.

Quote:
Have you any evidence to support your wild claims?
Yes. 1/3 of the characters are not in highsec. The average number of characters per account is 2 — i.e. pretty much everyone has that one alt. Every time there's some kind of informal straw poll on the matter, you'll hear the non-highseccers (that 1/3) say that they have a highsec alt — you'll quite often hear how they have 3-4 highsec alts for every character they have in non-HS space. Now, we can safely conclude that this is beyond the norm — if it were, We'd have 133–166% of the characters in the game belonging to non-highseccers, and that's simply not possible.

On the other hand, we have about the same number of people giving the opposite ratio: 3-4 non-highsec characters for every highsec alt. The only speculation (and it's far from a wild one) is this: the average is somewhere inbetween. Somewhere, say, around 1:1. That means 1/3 characters live outside of highsec; 1/3 characters are alts to those players; 1/3 are actual highseccers who never leave.

While ignoring the basic premise that the number of characters per account is 2 and a bit but a lot of Hi-sec accounts have only the one character with an SP above 5mill. Lets face it if they trained up multiple characters it would effect the abilities of their main. While most Null accounts are likely to have 2 or more likely 3 characters over that so they have their Null character and a Hi-sec Mission Runner and a trading alt as well (or a decent cyno alt)
The best argument against your wild claims are actually the CSM voting, as you are claiming 2/3 of the game are non-hi-sec why did so few vote for Null? simple answer is that out of 400k accounts only 30k voted for Null. The majority of the game is apathetic hi-sec account owners

Edit: Oh and if your statistics were even close to right then Null would not look like a ghost town.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2012-12-04 20:30:19 UTC
Why don't more ppl leave highsec? It's not the player, it's the game. Think about that...Roll
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#134 - 2012-12-04 20:34:26 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:


Edit: Oh and if your statistics were even close to right then Null would not look like a ghost town.


On average according to the last figures provided by ccp, there are 4000+ ships killed every day in null sec (7 million + over 4 and some change years).

That's a mighty violent ghost town.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#135 - 2012-12-04 20:37:17 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Why don't more ppl leave highsec? It's not the player, it's the game. Think about that...Roll


to stress my point I'll quote

Quote:
I have left high sec before.

I spent about a month in null, a month in a WH, and done some roaming in low sec.

That said though, the entertainment value in all of those just wasn't worth it.

In null sec I spent most of my time in station hiding cause no one else was going to fight, ratting belts, sitting around waiting for someone to run plexes with, and going on roam in which there was never anyone to fight.
Of the one month I spent in null sec, I came out with less isk that I went in with just due to costs of moving stuff.

Now, the month I spent in WH was fairly entertaining, but in a class 2 Wh it's not that profitable, and you can't jump into higher class WHs by yourself.

The last two weeks of my run in Wh space we had no sites spawning, so I was sitting around unable to do anything.

Now, when doing low sec roams for pvp you rarely saw anyone, and if you did, then they either quickly ran away, or they were there as bait for a much larger fleet and/or hotdrops.


My point is that reguardless of whether I'm risk averse or not, I just didn't find any entertainment value anywhere but high sec.

Sure, high sec can get monotonous, but at least I always have something to do...

Jarvin Spoo
Clandestine Management Group
#136 - 2012-12-04 20:38:21 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Andski wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
As surprising as it may be to some null/low-sec dwellers, some people really have no interest in the hassle of living outside of highsec. They don't want to deal with blob bubble camps, afk-cloakers, blops, and super carrier hot drops.
those are things that do not exist in wormholes
Really? Blink

No local = no AFK cloaking.
No jumps = no hotdrops.
No jumps = little to no point in blops.
No jumps and no sov = no supercaps.

That just leaves the odd blob with bubbles, and you can blow those up with ease. So yes, really.



What is a "blop"? What is a "super cap"? Sorry....not familiar with the lingo.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#137 - 2012-12-04 20:41:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Joe Risalo wrote:


Sure, high sec can get monotonous, but at least I always have something to do...


Once again a personal failing presented as a "reason".

I (well,the part of "I" on those 2 accounts lol) "live" in an upgraded system where I rat. When a cloaky comes in to camp I fit a MWD+ cloak to my ratting ship and go exploer/run anomalies in un-upgraded systems. If i get bored with that I go to npc null and run missions (if you have Guristas implants,there is a chance I bought em 1st with my LP lol). If I get tired of that there is some null sec Cosmos stuff nearby (i haven't been that bored yet).

If i don't want any of that there may be some corp, alliance or coalition fleet to join. If none I can go out solo and see what i get.

None if this requires any great effort on my part other than watching an intel channel or local or maybe my other screen if im using a scout because im too lazy to keep looking at local and intel chat....

Nothing wrong with living full time in hi sec, I go there to run in incursion fleets since there are no organized null sec incursions communities and incursions are pretty fun. But as I said in another similar thread, people shouldn't make excuses for why they can't figure out how to live elsewhere, they should just say "not my thing" and be done IMO.
Kimsemus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#138 - 2012-12-04 21:12:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimsemus
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


That's quite of a "tribal" and "manhood" way to see your existance: kill or be killed, exterminate the "enemy", if anybody who *could* be an enemy is alive then fix it. Refuse hi sec because there it's impossible to kill everybody outside of the tribe. NBSI way of life.

It's also why nullsec fails attracting "civilian" players.

Surprisingly enough, modern countries live more on a NRDS setup and that's why CVA attracted a number of civilian players.

This suggests that:

- either EvE's sandbox is not realistic enough to support a RL alike population and then the "force everybody out of hi sec claims are doomed to always fail"

- or EvE attracts too many warrying person types. Too many lions, gazelles prefer living in a cage (hi sec) than being free and be insta-slaugthered.



Edit:

There are always a majority of B type personalities, the "gazelles". There's nothing we can do about that, it's just how nature works. A type personalities will want to fight other A type personalities but also want B type to follow them.
In RL this sort of works because B types are enticed into "pushing a step ahead", i.e. the different behavior required of them is more progressive than B type's natural inclination but still within their accepted values, it's just a "stretch".
What happens in EvE is that B types are brutally kicked outside of their behavioral sphere and demanded to adhere to aggressive nature behaviors that are simply not theirs.


I will admit, your analysis is mostly correct. I do have a very type "A" personality. Not in the sense that I'm over aggressive or disagreeable in the real world, I guess I enjoy 0.0 in EVE because I can let my passions run wild. In real life, I work as part of different teams, I feed my pets, I cut my grass, I pay my income taxes, I am your typical twenty-something American living on his own.

Truth is, I enjoy working with others, and enjoy order and calm. And that's sort of the two appeals to 0.0 for me:

1) I can be whom I "want" to be. I can project parts of myself that I can't elsewhere. EVE is one of the only games where I feel like with enough friends, isk, and initiative I can do literally anything. I can be an intergalactic space pope. I've lead fleets, alliances, and now I enjoy just flying in gangs and relaxing. But I could literally do and be the person I wanted to be, without worrying about the consequences of failure like I would in my normal life. There is no praetorian whispering in my ear "Remember Caesar, thou art mortal", I can take risks and win or lose and have fun doing it.

2) In 0.0, I can bring true order to my own house. I was sucked in by EVE when EVE first came out because the idea of building something of my own and owning it, making my own rules and dictating my own destiny appealed to me. I can get rich in highsec, but I don't feel any sense of "belonging" When I'm coming back from a roam and I jump into our home system, I feel a relief, like getting home from work and kicking the shoes off and relaxing, job well done. And I'm usually still alive, +1 for that!

I guess it depends less on what 0.0 can do for me, or what highsec can do for me, and what kind of emotional and social experience I want to have. I enjoy spending my free time teaching new players and working to improve the game, trading, and doing all sorts of things, but I love 0.0 because when I want to get down to business, there is always killing that needs doing.

To ride along with a few other posts though, no, 0.0 is not friendly. Lowsec is not friendly. It was not kind to me when I first started in it. I died many times, frustrated and confused. But something awoke in me when I did -- there is a competition in me that rose up and I wanted to go from prey to predator. I didn't give up on 0.0 because i felt like I was failing if I did.

I'm an old character, I'm already rich, I don't need to make ISK or trade, truthfully, anymore. What's left to me then, is the killing. The endless, endless killing. Because I want to help breed a new generation of predators, and I want to do it the way I was raised: fly or die.

//edit

I am also thrilled how this thread has taken off...I am enjoying reading these different opinions. Some perspectives being presented I had never thought of before so I am enjoying it very much.
Jarvin Spoo
Clandestine Management Group
#139 - 2012-12-04 21:13:26 UTC


[/quote]




I flew into and out of NPC null a few times as a carebear, occasionally I got podded. It's a silly thing to do.[/quote]

Wait....isnt this post about wanting more people to " fly into and out of null"?

Its very possible that people just don't want to lose their ships. Its as simple as that.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#140 - 2012-12-04 21:35:29 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
While ignoring the basic premise that the number of characters per account is 2 and a bit but a lot of Hi-sec accounts have only the one character with an SP above 5mill.
That would only mean that there's even fewer true highseccers and that those character counts are comprised of even larger number of non-highsec alts… but that's assuming that it's true to begin with, which remains to be seen.

Quote:
While most Null accounts are likely to have 2 or more likely 3 characters over that so they have their Null character and a Hi-sec Mission Runner and a trading alt as well (or a decent cyno alt)
…and that's how we arrive at the conclusion that a mere 2/3ds is a low estimate for how many non-highseccers there are out there.

Quote:
The best argument against your wild claims are actually the CSM voting, as you are claiming 2/3 of the game are non-hi-sec why did so few vote for Null? simple answer is that out of 400k accounts only 30k voted for Null.
…except that it's not 30k out of 400k. It's 30k out of 58k (and that's before even disputing the notion of “voting for null”). Just because voters are apathetic does not mean they live in highsec. As for the ghost town, you do realise that we're still talking about 1/3 of the inhabitants you see in-game being spread out over 86% of the available space… so no, it doesn't particularly question anything about CCP's statistics.

Jarvin Spoo wrote:
What is a "blop"? What is a "super cap"? Sorry....not familiar with the lingo.

“Blop” = BlackOps ships — T2 battleships that can jump itself and other ships to covert cynos. They are themselves rather flimsy and not all that good for front-line work.
“Super cap” = Supercarriers and Titans — the highest tiers of ships, which can only be built in player-owned space and which can only move between systems through the use of cynos. They are also too large to fit through wormholes.

W-Space cannot be owned and cannot be accessed through cynos, so the threat of a blackops gating in a bunch of stealth bombers and/or recons is zero because it's impossible to do so, and supercaps can quite simply never appear in such systems.