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Capital reps and Armor Links (Confirmed Stealth Nerf)

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Dinta Zembo
Tea. Earl Grey. Cold.
#121 - 2012-12-04 17:54:46 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

So what we're going to do is roll back this whole change as the first available patch opportunity


Thank you very much Big smile
1Compression
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#122 - 2012-12-04 17:55:11 UTC
Qaldramas wrote:
1Compression wrote:

Can anyone provide intelligent explanation/example of the impact this is going to have on triage groups? What will they no longer be able to rep that they could before?

The two main examples that come to mind are engagements where triage carriers are one of the main sources of reps (as in the invasion of J115405 aka RAGE this past weekend) and running Sleeper sites. In both cases the armor reps landing later can mean the ship you are repping dies before the reps hit it (never mind that the total amount of reps you dish out also decreases.) In the case of Sleeper sites, particularly when it comes to running sites in a wormhole other than your home hole (which applies to all who live in C5 and C6 WHs) you do not have the option to simply bring an extra carrier (1st because of mass limits and 2nd because of the extra sleepers that spawn when you bring in another carrier.)

I suspect this also has many implications for large-scale cap fights in low and especially null, but I have no real experience with those engagements so someone else will have to post about that.

Again, as others have been stressing, the loss of total amount repped is certainly unpleasant but in some situations the even worse problem is that your reps might not land in time to save someone's ship.


Great explanation, thank you very much.
Dethmourne Silvermane
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#123 - 2012-12-04 17:55:29 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
So here's the deal.

Firstly. I have confirmed that I stated incorrect information in my earlier forum post. I apologize for the mistake and want to clearly state that those of you arguing that the links all affected shield transporters were and are correct and I was wrong.
What happened was I accepted incorrect information at face value, information that I should have known was wrong and information that I should have personally confirmed before making any statements. Many of you know me well enough that this kind of mistake is not the kind of thing I want to be allowing myself to make, and frankly there's egg on my face.

The change was made as a defect response to a defect that contained incorrect information, and although I brought up some concerns when it was initially reported (as did the CSM, most notably Two Step), I did not dig deep enough and we let an imbalanced change hit TQ.

So what we're going to do is roll back this whole change as the first available patch opportunity and then go back to the drawing board to create a more complete plan to both make capital effects more understandable and ensure that the mechanics stay balanced and that we don't crush capital pilots.

We'll keep you updated, and once again I'm very sorry.



Mistakes happen. Admitting the error and looking forward for a comprehensive solution, while doing a quick "in the meantime" fix, is the best route to success. I wish we'd started at this post instead of having to clamor to get here.

Interested Party (TM)
Movtaron
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#124 - 2012-12-04 17:56:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Movtaron
Thank you CCP Fozzie, lets just hope that patch is comming soon.


And when the next nerf comes please let us know about it first, maybe people can sell their stuff before it is actually worthless.

/rant
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#125 - 2012-12-04 17:57:23 UTC
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
So here's the deal.

Firstly. I have confirmed that I stated incorrect information in my earlier forum post. I apologize for the mistake and want to clearly state that those of you arguing that the links all affected shield transporters were and are correct and I was wrong.
What happened was I accepted incorrect information at face value, information that I should have known was wrong and information that I should have personally confirmed before making any statements. Many of you know me well enough that this kind of mistake is not the kind of thing I want to be allowing myself to make, and frankly there's egg on my face.

The change was made as a defect response to a defect that contained incorrect information, and although I brought up some concerns when it was initially reported (as did the CSM, most notably Two Step), I did not dig deep enough and we let an imbalanced change hit TQ.

So what we're going to do is roll back this whole change as the first available patch opportunity and then go back to the drawing board to create a more complete plan to both make capital effects more understandable and ensure that the mechanics stay balanced and that we don't crush capital pilots.

We'll keep you updated, and once again I'm very sorry.



Mistakes happen. Admitting the error and looking forward for a comprehensive solution, while doing a quick "in the meantime" fix, is the best route to success. I wish we'd started at this post instead of having to clamor to get here.


I actually didn't have time to read all the clamor, as I was scrambling to confirm some details about the change. So technically just pointing out the issue while saying you'll love me forever would have worked just as well. Blink

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#126 - 2012-12-04 17:57:48 UTC
Props to CCP Fozzie for owning it, lock stock and barrel.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2012-12-04 17:58:30 UTC
Fozzie doesnt always come thru with his ideas. But when he does he makes sure the community is happy about it.


Thanks man

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx
Veinnail
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#128 - 2012-12-04 17:59:42 UTC
This thread is showing eve players that CCP might have learned some things over the past year or two. Listening to the players in situations like these, reinforces the support of old players ;)

New guard CCP doing big things.
chris elliot
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#129 - 2012-12-04 18:00:13 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
So here's the deal.

Words.

We'll keep you updated, and once again I'm very sorry.



Confirming CCP Fozzie is a man and owns up to his screw ups.
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#130 - 2012-12-04 18:01:40 UTC
Darenthul wrote:
I find it adorable how 5 minutes ago half of you were rabid and swearing Fozzie was the worst man alive and now you're all over him.

Thanks Fozzie for being straightforward and providing adequate information.


This is why the best response is to talk about the change, not about the people that make the changes. Fozzie didn't even make the original change that this thread is about.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#131 - 2012-12-04 18:02:27 UTC
CCP Fozzie showing his true quality here in this thread! a man of integrity and honour!

more of this please!
DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
Stealth Alliance
#132 - 2012-12-04 18:03:08 UTC
Cheers Fozz. Post-Tournament warm glow restored.

Damn nature, you scary!
Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#133 - 2012-12-04 18:03:43 UTC
Two step wrote:
Darenthul wrote:
I find it adorable how 5 minutes ago half of you were rabid and swearing Fozzie was the worst man alive and now you're all over him.

Thanks Fozzie for being straightforward and providing adequate information.


This is why the best response is to talk about the change, not about the people that make the changes. Fozzie didn't even make the original change that this thread is about.


Exactly! I would've honestly been more privy to the plight had more numbers/information been provided and people discussed the idea rather than spending the whole time bashing CCP instead.

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#134 - 2012-12-04 18:04:27 UTC
FYI I logged out with a combat timer in lowsec to help handle this, so I better be alive when I log back in. :shakes fist:

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Mawderator
Dark Enlightenment
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#135 - 2012-12-04 18:04:44 UTC
CCP Raivi is a good man, and his father was a good man.
Lord MuffloN
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#136 - 2012-12-04 18:07:04 UTC
One of the best responses I've ever seen from CCP, good job!

CCP Fozzie wrote:
FYI I logged out with a combat timer in lowsec to help handle this, so I better be alive when I log back in. :shakes fist:



Hahaha, you're so screwed
Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#137 - 2012-12-04 18:08:40 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Fozzie owning an oops like a boss.


Great post Fozzie, we'll put the pitchforks away now. Want a beer? Pirate

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/
Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#138 - 2012-12-04 18:10:53 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
FYI I logged out with a combat timer in lowsec to help handle this, so I better be alive when I log back in. :shakes fist:


WTB CCP Fozzie corpse.

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2012-12-04 18:27:04 UTC
Ezra Vouland wrote:


You still didn't provide the number amount of which will be taken away. Not to mention most the kids crying here are crying over triage, and if are repping 10-12 seconds as triage, are doing it wrong.

Lets make it simple. If you have a bro in a damnation boosting Rapid Repair and that is now gone, how much armor per second is lost?


Since you are incapable of seeing things for yourself:

Archon, in triage, with 1 CRAR, no boosts: reps 3000 armor every 2.5s. This comes out to 1200armor/s (and lands at end of cycle). Add in a damnation w/ lvl 5 skills, mindlink, and all 3 armor links. Now you get 3k armor every 1.69s. This comes out to 1775armor/s. This means that an archon will now rep at 67% of the effectiveness. That is a complete 1/3 less rep power than before.

Now do you see the difference? If not, I recommend biomassing, because you will never be able to make it in eve...

-Arazel
darius mclever
#140 - 2012-12-04 18:27:24 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
FYI I logged out with a combat timer in lowsec to help handle this, so I better be alive when I log back in. :shakes fist:



If not ... let me know the ship and fitting. Cheers for the quick fix.