EVE General Discussion

I don't leave highsec for the simple reason: In highsec, you may lose your ship eventually, it will be due to stupid mistakes.
The moment you leave that safety, its no longer a matter of might, its a matter of "you WILL lose your ship." and im not talking days, im not talking hours, with the over eagerness of outlaw players it will more than likely be minutes.

I have left Highsec 5 times, only one of those times i survived. 4 were due to gate camps right on the gates between high and low, the other time i survived was because i managed to reach a station and dock. I was in a frigate with no cargo and yet 2 players camped the station for 6 hours. I sat with EVE on while i did other stuff. asked them why they were wasting their time, they said for the 'sweet tears' i beat them back in game by a minute when downtime ended and made ti back to highsec.

I can understand the thrill of PvP, but i feel some people are a little over amped to do it and this puts people off bothering with the hassle.

If i join a Null Alliance and have help getting out there and even training, then sure. But for the foreseeable future that will not happen so i shall cling to my little patch of secure space where the worst i have to worry about is a suicide swarm going after my Mining Barge, or someone looting my quest trash hoping i will attack him so his friends can take me out.

Each to their own as they say.

the OP has a good point , there are just too many people that just refuse to take risks of any kind , and never keave high sec not since their first day, ok maybe they jumped into a empty low sec once and jumped out immediatly after that but still

For some of us HS is their choice of playstyle , fair enough

What irritates me the most tho is the negative feedback about 0.0 by those people who never leave HS

Staying in hi-sec is easy, and most people prefer easy answers over hard choices.

I spend all of this weekend i low sec for the first time, and it was awesome. I got my first real solo kill, a couple of times i ended up in some real bad situations and survived, all-in-all i had the most fun i have had in eve in a long time.

I used to live in caldari space, and the low-sec that was the closest to me, was just are painful nightmare. You could not do 5 jumps without running into a gate camp, and if you first low-sec experience is repeatedly getting blown up by gate campers, you probably think it's a lot more fun flying around hi-sec, at least i did.

But like you i always feel low-sec seemed like a interesting place, but just like Mordor, it's no a place you just walk into without any pvp experience. If you do so, you can very easily end up at the receiving end of the stick. Personally i spend a little over a month in RvB, which don't really prepare you for low-sec, but i give a basic understand of pvp and more importantly getting you ship blown up over and over teaches you that it's not the end of the world to loose a ship.

I moved away from Caldari space and found a more peaceful party of the galaxy, which had a more noob friendly group of low-sec systems. I can make some isk doing exploration and anom's in the local low-sec system, and when i feel like it trying some pvp then Molden Heath is not that fare away.

Actually I would have thought the saner approach is to use the facts at hand, not just wild speculation.

The population figures are done on characters over 5 million SP, below that does not count. So that removes all the untrained alts.

As to your theory it does not include those people who are from hi-sec and where in Null during those readings.

Have you any evidence to support your wild claims? No then

I think the saner view is definitely to take facts over wild speculation.

Yes, because at least those have some semblance of connection to reality unlike the asspull interpretations some people want to make (viz. 1 character = 1 player). And no, it's not something people make up — it's something people estimate based on what they themselves do and what people around them show, and based on account statistics provided by CCP.

…and I never said you did. If you feel confused, go back and look at the post I objected to.

No. I object to people taking the numbers to be a count of players when it is pretty much the exact opposite of that. I am not doing that. I'm taking it for what it is — a count of characters — and using official stats (such as number of characters per account) and reasoned guesstimates (placement of alts) to conclude that there is a significant likelihood that half those nighsec characters, or more, are alts to non-highseccers.

Above all, I make the simple deduction that the 65% highsec characters is an absolute upper bound for highsec players and that for every trade alt or scout alt or MR alt (etc) and for every traveller who just rests the night there, that number goes way way down. A simple (and very low) 1:2 highsec alt ratio means the highseccers have lost that majority they like to rely on as an argument for anything. A 1:1 ratio means that the highseccers are now a small minority. The trick is all in finding out that ratio, and that is why the numbers themselves tell us nothing.

…which we do. Just over 2.

As luck would have it, there's very little in the way of wild speculation going on there.

No. It actually includes them. If they are in null at the time of the poll, then they are obviously both willing and able to leave highsec, which means they fall outside of the highseccer category. They are not part in the (erroneously) self-professed highsec majority.

Yes. 1/3 of the characters are not in highsec. The average number of characters per account is 2 — i.e. pretty much everyone has that one alt. Every time there's some kind of informal straw poll on the matter, you'll hear the non-highseccers (that 1/3) say that they have a highsec alt — you'll quite often hear how they have 3-4 highsec alts for every character they have in non-HS space. Now, we can safely conclude that this is beyond the norm — if it were, We'd have 133–166% of the characters in the game belonging to non-highseccers, and that's simply not possible.

On the other hand, we have about the same number of people giving the opposite ratio: 3-4 non-highsec characters for every highsec alt. The only speculation (and it's far from a wild one) is this: the average is somewhere inbetween. Somewhere, say, around 1:1. That means 1/3 characters live outside of highsec; 1/3 characters are alts to those players; 1/3 are actual highseccers who never leave.

The benefits don't outweigh the risks to me to be blunt.

I also don't understand the political climate of null, or how low-sec rules work exactly, so I'd rather not go tumbling into an unknown area, where people can attack me at will, and have no idea what's going on.

I don't even think the idea of "risk" applies here. It's not really a risk, it's closer to a certainty. It's not "you might lose your ship", usually it is "you WILL lose your ship, the only question is when". Would you call stepping out of the airplane without a parachute a "risk"? Sure, there's a chance you would survive the fall - a handful of people did - there's a stewardess that fell 33,000 feet and lived. But for most of us? It's not a "risk", it's suicide, plain and simple. And most of the time, the engagement will be totally one-sided. As in, you have a snowball's chance in hell of making it out alive, and less than that of actually turning the tables on your attacker and winning.

Which is why I think you will see in so many other games, including FFA PvP ones with player loot, that people tend to take more risks compared to EVE. For example, in Darkfall, you can actively dodge arrows if you are a better dodger than the guy shooting you a marksman. You can have 5 people chasing you, but if you are good at zig-zaging and dodging at the last second, they won't land a hit. And this is PLAYER skill, not character skill. I took risks in Darkfall I wouldn't dream of even trying in EVE.

EVE is too often clear-cut, black-and-white. If A happens, the B will happen with 99% certainty type of deal. Whereas in other MMOs, a simple feature like direct player control or active evasion (under direct player control) can turn the tide of battle, provided the player doing it is skilled enough. In EVE, actual player skill required is considerably lower, and is grossly overshadowed by character's skillpoints to boot. Though beyond a certain SP point, it is a moot point, except EVE loses most of its new players LONG before that SP point is reached by them.

If EVE was a little less binary, I think people would take more risks in it. As it is now, game mechanics like gates, stations (leading to gate and station camping) create too much risk. So much that it is a virtual certainty. And that ends up hurting the game more than anything else.

I remember back in the day i was affraid to go into high sec... though this was when pirate allaince (or some simular name) had a war dec on litterally everyone...

I doubt that seriously.

That's basically a "nurture" argument, "if you just teach em right, they'll do right" for the most part.

While I think nurture is important, it's NATURE that rules (just like in real life, which is why adopted kids tend to have the IQs of their birth parents rather than scores similar to the adopted parents who actually raised them, which was the subject of a research paper I authored in college).

So while exposing players to more pvp like activity early on in the beginning is fine, there is nothing about doing so that predicts this would lead to "more players unloading rounds of antimatter into their fellow pilots".

In fact I think changing PVE to more closely resemble PVP might simply result in some level of decrease of people playing the game all together. EVE combat (and some non-combat) PVE is like PVE in the rest of gaming world (and most gaming is PVE), it's lets the player feel "powerful" by mowing down hordes of "mobs" and can be relaxing once the player knows all the ends and outs (and has skill enough to tank their ship beyond any possibility of death.

This is why I think CCP's strategy should involve marketing the game to people predisposed to like EVE style PVP to begin with (start with prisons and work your way down to biker gangs ) rather than trying to mass recruit everyone then stuff their square general gamer peg into a harsh EVE style PVP Hole (forgive me for making that sound kinda sexual, I play too much EVE and everything is sexual now, I want to make love to your pod...).