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this is stupid, already DST are near useless because ->

in null, bubbles rule, stabs do nothing
in lowsec you probably die to a gatecamp anyway, the stab bonus is decent but nothing special
in highsec your tank isn't really going to save you, anything camp that can kill a freighter will annihilate you, plus, stabs don't mean anything here either

the scan immunity would be nice on DST. if fit for tanking, the tank is probably enough that most solo campers would probably not risk it, some would, some wouldn't. it would also give DST a good role as a highsec transport


already, the blockade runners are better, because they warp cloak jump, they shouldn't be visible long enough to lock.
right now for the most part the blockade runner is better for all sec spaces because of the cloak.
in lowsec a stabbed blockade runner probably won't die if flown right, in highsec they shouldn't die unless you lag after jumping. DST for a long time have been mostly useless the you BUFF it's competition.

Another +1 here for the please do not make Blockade runners un-scannable

This change looks to be a poorly thought out quick fix to the loss of the un-scannable Orca Corp Hangar Array. As many have said you are simply painting a target on every Blockade Runner in space, no matter if it has cargo or not.

I'm more than happy for you to revoke this change and for us to do without any un-scannable ships until you can come up with a better solution.

How about a rig that makes a percentage of your cargo bay un-scannable ?

Or pirate faction smuggling ships (although I guess they would come with a target painted on their ass)

Speaking about unnecessary complexity...

Hangar Query and Container take roles should work...

If not it is the other way around but I'm pretty sure. Thats how my corp secure audit warehouses are setup. Did all the roles myself and tested it not that long ago.

It's all about a system and it's not easy to work out - But it's still possible... Only problem is that roles cannot be used to give people access to only part of containers in a corp hangar. And passwords is a clusterfuck to remember and control.

Pinky

Not just that...there's also fact that they can now park a freighter nearby to scoop the loot.



I'm not terribly bothered by this though...the cargo isn't "totally" scannable, in that you can always stick your shiny mods onto ships into the SMA for hauling. Most of the more common shinies (hardeners, tackle, & weapon upgrades) will fit onto a frigate.

Except you forget one thing: CCP is working to attract 13 year old players, and this is *actually* hard for some to undertand.

I'm totally ok with the changes.

Bring back "Trauma" missiles, too!

Well. Thanks for replying, but once again: you're not "addressing the overall complexity". You're making the game more complex, with this change (as with crimewatch for that matter). If you would have been honest and just said "we don't like this code .. because" then I'd reluctantly accept that, even if it **** me off. Now I'm just even more annoyed that you try to sweep it under the rug with a poor excuse that is simple wrong. It's getting more complex, so don't say it's not, because it is.

So, to reply to your questions: Well moving stuff around, is one aspect. The other is actually to maintain and sort peoples assets using the hangars. I mentioned supers- and capitals. We have Titan- and Mothership pilots among our ranks, as a small army of Orca pilots, and several of those ships never dock. They're perfect as logistic platforms (titan with bridge + 100k corp hangar, motherships with 50k). When you operate in hostile nullsec it's great if you can use say hangar 1 to keep "everyone's shared ammo", and then maybe 2-5 for group/player 2-3-4-5's loot, and then probably hangars with specific modules/other reasons.

I think the problem when you look at EVE is that you always either think "2000k fleet, own sov null" or "highsec carebear". There is no instances between. No opening for WH. No consideration of small scale operations. Alt corps. Etc. That is something you guys really need to address - at least if you care about this games heritage. So yes, hauling is one aspect, but actual "holding"/storage, is another. Say I keep an alt-corps storage Orca in my mains POS for ex. I can't just swap over all the loot from that Orca to the POS, it's two separate corps. But I need to pilot in the Orca with a main corp pilot so it doesn't belong to the "wrong" corp. This has a use in WH's, among other places.

So, to answer your second question: I have absolutely no clue how courier contracts would fix anything at all. You can't courier contract stuff to separate and take/drop from different "hangar"-like contracts in a Mothership I parked in hostile null. How about a better solution: let ships have a single hangar as default, then players can create as many/few they need, and give those hangars a rightclick menu where we can set access to a named player, no matter from what corp etc. Like how we give players access to a locked chat channel. Same mechanic. I want player A to join chat channel, so I "allow" him by searching his name and adding him to the list. Exactly same mechanics would be great for supers as well as Orca and other capitals. That'd benefit highsec miners too actually, since they could just give keep out of corp alts have access to whatever-specific hangar the pilot choses.
(Edit; And that could be expanded on. Let us created 'groups' of people in the contact list, folder-style, then we add a specific group to the access. That way a big alliance/corp can allow a big group of people access to hangar X, for example.)

The only thing remotely "complex" about the old system was to set up the roles for access, which would not be an issue to any experienced player (or something that took me about 30sec to learn from the corp system, when I set up my very first corp, it's not hard). It might've been a nuissance if you had a large corp (probably in a big alliance); but again, you should get it out of your game-creating heads that everyone plays this way. Hint: we don't. And you used to cater us small scale players back the first four-five years of EVE's history, it would be nice if you could give us some love again.

Thanks.

So if you are shooting for less complexity as per the dev post claim, all scanning should be effected by these changes. It looks like in your quest to make things less complicated - you used a complex method to do so So obviously there is some other motivation involved here other than making things less complex.......

Overall I like the changes and think that ganking will be even more fun since many more Orcas will be targets now!

I wonder what is going to happen to the desirability of DSTs are going to be now, with blockade runners becoming so much more awesome.