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Probing....
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Studliness Meyer
Asylum Alumni
Asylum Consortium
#1 - 2012-12-03 22:01:06 UTC
I'm sure you guys have seen a hundred+ posts about probing and how "I don't get it," and I did a search to see if any of them could help, but none did so I'm making a post so someone can please help clarify it for me.

I did the tutorials, found all objects, and even watched the youtube probing tutorial video. I launched my one core probe, found an anomaly at roughly 1%, launched my other 4 and began pinpointing it down exactly as they show in the video, adjusting my probes in every direction to center on my finds. I got roughly to about 22% found, pinpointed a little further, and the object *disappeared*. After my "WTF" moment, I started from scratch and did the same thing, except this time I got to about 13%, and then every time I would zero in a little further, the percentages would drop every single time. I spent the better part of 2 and a half hours trying to pinpoint anomalies, with 0 results. The same thing keeps happening...they just disappear as I get closer. Even if I move my probes back out and extend their scan range, I still can't find the object.

Now is this something NORMAL in the game, or is something wrong here? And do I need to have my probing skills maxed out before its even worth trying? I'm at astrometrics lvl 2 and have no other skills that help out.
Studliness Meyer
Asylum Alumni
Asylum Consortium
#2 - 2012-12-03 23:10:55 UTC
Everybody......nevermind Oops

I'm just a dumb noob. I had my filters set and didn't realize that past a certain percent signal strength, anything not on your filters would fall off.

On the other side of the coin though, not one guide I read mention this happening, so I never did find an answer on the many that I checked. If anyone out there owns a probing guide, please add this as a note in there so morons like myself don't waste so much time chasing their own tails.
Liner Xiandra
Sparks Inc
#3 - 2012-12-03 23:13:47 UTC
It's very well possible that when scaling down probe size, the actual signal might fall outside of your new probes scanrange.

The location the scanner gave on your previous scan was an approximation, so the actual signal might be coming from a point that is offset from what you see on screen.

Try putting your probes a little closer to each other (more overlap) from the beginning, that might reduce sudden signal loss.
If the signal is completely gone, try moving all probes a little upward - scan again-, and if nothing is still found, a little below the previous location. That usually picks the signal back up.

It gets a whole lot easier if you skill up, including the supporting skills such as:
-Astrometric pinpointing
-Astrometric Aquisition
-Astrometric rangefinding

Keep practicing, the beginning is difficult indeed.
Liner Xiandra
Sparks Inc
#4 - 2012-12-03 23:14:52 UTC
Studliness Meyer wrote:
Everybody......nevermind Oops

I'm just a dumb noob. I had my filters set and didn't realize that past a certain percent signal strength, anything not on your filters would fall off.

On the other side of the coin though, not one guide I read mention this happening, so I never did find an answer on the many that I checked. If anyone out there owns a probing guide, please add this as a note in there so morons like myself don't waste so much time chasing their own tails.


Ah, often overlooked indeed.
Akuma Tsukai
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-12-03 23:40:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Akuma Tsukai
Studliness Meyer wrote:
I'm sure you guys have seen a hundred+ posts about probing and how "I don't get it," and I did a search to see if any of them could help, but none did so I'm making a post so someone can please help clarify it for me.

I did the tutorials, found all objects, and even watched the youtube probing tutorial video. I launched my one core probe, found an anomaly at roughly 1%, launched my other 4 and began pinpointing it down exactly as they show in the video, adjusting my probes in every direction to center on my finds. I got roughly to about 22% found, pinpointed a little further, and the object *disappeared*. After my "WTF" moment, I started from scratch and did the same thing, except this time I got to about 13%, and then every time I would zero in a little further, the percentages would drop every single time. I spent the better part of 2 and a half hours trying to pinpoint anomalies, with 0 results. The same thing keeps happening...they just disappear as I get closer. Even if I move my probes back out and extend their scan range, I still can't find the object.

Now is this something NORMAL in the game, or is something wrong here? And do I need to have my probing skills maxed out before its even worth trying? I'm at astrometrics lvl 2 and have no other skills that help out.


Its is perfectly nortmal when you either: put drones too close so that you get 1 effective one (leading to decrease) or forget that THIS IS A ******* 3D WORLD and dont adjust your drones to signature actual elevation.
P.S. And yes with your skill all you can currently do is pray for luck, you wont many things with just astro 2. Train them all to 3 at least, do yourself a favor. All 4 is sufficient for low sec.
Eight Two
SWIFT Inc.
#6 - 2012-12-04 01:42:26 UTC
Studliness Meyer wrote:
Everybody......nevermind Oops

I'm just a dumb noob. I had my filters set and didn't realize that past a certain percent signal strength, anything not on your filters would fall off.

On the other side of the coin though, not one guide I read mention this happening, so I never did find an answer on the many that I checked. If anyone out there owns a probing guide, please add this as a note in there so morons like myself don't waste so much time chasing their own tails.


Actually that's quite a common problem seeing that people in the rookie channel and the various exploration channels regularly complain about it. The problem is that as you said, signatures just dissapear.

A fix could be leaving a greyed out mark (similar to bookmarks) on the starmap to give visual feedback that the signature is still there, just not what you are looking for.

Also, what Akuma said. Low probing skills will lead to frustration, the extra time to train the relevant skills to at least IV is well worth the time.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-12-04 06:26:22 UTC  |  Edited by: St Mio
Don't feel bad about it, the filter system is useless in 99% of all situations. the filtering system for splitting up Cosmic Signatures into Unknown, Grav, Radar, Mag and Ladar is useless in 99% of all situations. The feature is a great idea in theory, but the implementation is incredibly broken.

Edited for clarity.
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
The Whale Hunters Association
#8 - 2012-12-04 10:20:51 UTC
St Mio wrote:
Don't feel bad about it, the filter system is useless in 99% of all situations. The feature is a great idea in theory, but the implementation is incredibly broken.


filter system is fine.
Sylvia Nardieu
Super Serious Fight Club
#9 - 2012-12-04 10:40:01 UTC
Filter system is actually one of the most useful aspects of explo since it clears up the clutter which scan results sometimes can provide. I personally use separate filters for probing down (boosting) T3's, signatures (w/o anomalies), capsules Pirate etc...
Really useful, just learn how to use it.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-12-04 10:52:03 UTC  |  Edited by: St Mio
Test case:

Scenario, Mag sites are set to hidden on filter.

1. First scan: ABC-123 at 1%

2. Second scan: ABC-123 at 26%. It's a Mag.

It then disappears: you have no idea if you placed your probe wrong, if what you're probing moved (in case of ships), or if the filter is filtering it out. No feedback.

3. Proceed to scan next sig, DEF-456. Suddenly ABC-123 appears back on scan at 5%.

It would work a lot better if the scanner remembered the highest result for a signature instead of the most recent result, or automatically added them to the ignore list once you've scanned them past 25% and they fall under a filtered out category.
Talemecus Valta
Deep Space Coalition
#11 - 2012-12-04 12:16:09 UTC
This is a very informative post.

Touch wood, (taps head enthusiasticaly), Ive not had this trouble.

Whereabouts would I find the filters for probing on my scanner?

Is there a tiny little menu icon I've not found??

Talemecus Valta, PVP Cannon Fodder, Valta Industries.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-12-04 12:29:33 UTC
Robertina Bering
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-12-04 12:42:23 UTC
It seems like you're using some fliters. Just switch your filter to "Show all" mode and enjoy.
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
The Whale Hunters Association
#14 - 2012-12-04 12:44:46 UTC
St Mio wrote:
Test case:

Scenario, Mag sites are set to hidden on filter.

1. First scan: ABC-123 at 1%

2. Second scan: ABC-123 at 26%. It's a Mag.

It then disappears: you have no idea if you placed your probe wrong, if what you're probing moved (in case of ships), or if the filter is filtering it out. No feedback.

3. Proceed to scan next sig, DEF-456. Suddenly ABC-123 appears back on scan at 5%.

It would work a lot better if the scanner remembered the highest result for a signature instead of the most recent result, or automatically added them to the ignore list once you've scanned them past 25% and they fall under a filtered out category.


then dont use them for pve.

combat probe in 0.0 with out filters and then come back saying filters suck.

morons
Talemecus Valta
Deep Space Coalition
#15 - 2012-12-04 14:43:37 UTC
St Mio wrote:
http://www.swiftandbitter.com/eve/misc/Reset_Filters.jpg

:)



Thanks for that, I've never really used filters before.

I'll give them a go later on after the download.

Lol

Talemecus Valta, PVP Cannon Fodder, Valta Industries.
Jarvin Spoo
Clandestine Management Group
#16 - 2012-12-04 15:27:45 UTC
Lilan Kahn wrote:
St Mio wrote:
Test case:

Scenario, Mag sites are set to hidden on filter.

1. First scan: ABC-123 at 1%

2. Second scan: ABC-123 at 26%. It's a Mag.

It then disappears: you have no idea if you placed your probe wrong, if what you're probing moved (in case of ships), or if the filter is filtering it out. No feedback.

3. Proceed to scan next sig, DEF-456. Suddenly ABC-123 appears back on scan at 5%.

It would work a lot better if the scanner remembered the highest result for a signature instead of the most recent result, or automatically added them to the ignore list once you've scanned them past 25% and they fall under a filtered out category.


then dont use them for pve.

combat probe in 0.0 with out filters and then come back saying filters suck.

morons


Its amazing as to the lack of respect and common courtesy that happens in this forum. Please check your non productive comments at the door. The post was a valid point that needed feedback.
Vixorz
Cabronazos
#17 - 2012-12-04 15:31:26 UTC
St Mio wrote:
Test case:

Scenario, Mag sites are set to hidden on filter.

1. First scan: ABC-123 at 1%

2. Second scan: ABC-123 at 26%. It's a Mag.

It then disappears: you have no idea if you placed your probe wrong, if what you're probing moved (in case of ships), or if the filter is filtering it out. No feedback.

3. Proceed to scan next sig, DEF-456. Suddenly ABC-123 appears back on scan at 5%.

It would work a lot better if the scanner remembered the highest result for a signature instead of the most recent result, or automatically added them to the ignore list once you've scanned them past 25% and they fall under a filtered out category.


That happened to me a couple of times after beginning to use the filters. Now i only use filters when i want to scan only sigs or ships.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-12-05 05:33:06 UTC
I admit I should have been more specific :)

Allow me to rephrase:

A few months ago, CCP split "Cosmic Signature" up from 1 checkbox to 5 (one for each type). While these would be nice if they worked, they don't. Either you're looking for PvE sites and have them all checked, or you're not, and you uncheck them all.

Also, the default setting for all 5 new checkboxes was the unchecked state, so everyone was having suddenly mysteriously disappearing results. It was as annoying as logging in to find that all your Overview presets were removed.

I mentioned it in this context cause OP was talking about scanning PvE sites.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-12-05 21:02:38 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
I have to say I never really liked the filter option for exploration, guess I'm just old school. I can definitely see it being very useful for Combat probing

Anyway, I have all Cosmic Sig's set to show and if it still shows 'Unknown' after getting 25% signal strength, then I know I'm chasing down a w-hole or combat site which will show itself at 75%.

May take me a little bit longer to do exploration but I definitely won't miss any signatures or rescan ghost sig's. This also allows me the option to ignore specific sites at my prerogative.

Training up all exploration skills at least to level 4 and using Sisters equipment will definitely make it much easier and faster. If really serious, install exploration implants and use a dedicated scanning ship (Bonus/Role).

DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2012-12-06 02:02:00 UTC
I scan a lot. Not as much as when I lived fulltime in w-space but still quite a lot. Much of my scanning nowadays is nullsec PvP related, although I also go w-space hunting from time to time … for old times sake.

Nowadays I virtually never use the filters and have my system scanner set to show me everything. Instead of the filters I make extensive use of the ‘ignore’ option.

The way I see it, this method lets me ‘see’ everything and then decide what to do with that data. Seeing an ‘unknown’ when I am hunting an episodic orca might quickly galvanise me into realising that I’m dealing with a WH-collapsing orca, probably from a C3. Seeing all the towers may prompt me to realise “Hell, there’s a new POS in here” and go find the hostile interloper. The downside, if there is one, is that I do need to take a look at all the returns and decide which to ignore and which to keep a watch on … but the ability to sort by each column makes that a pretty quick job.

I guess I see the filters as being fine, as far as they go, but prefer to apply my own feeble brain to all of the information available … believing, perhaps falsely, that that will let me make better decisions faster.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
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