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Dev Blog: Happy Safe Fun Time!

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Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#321 - 2012-12-03 13:30:15 UTC
ANGRY23 wrote:

Retribution is imo the best release for a while and props to ccp for it but this idiocy has taken the shine off it for me and probably most of the low sec community. "Hey we can use drones on the gate guys and the gate guns wont kill them anymore but you have to remember to disable the half finished button on your hud before you can engage said drones. AND you have to disable every fecking time you log in until this part of the product you pay for is finished. Props


Pretty much this. I don't condone personal attacks either, however, it needs to be said and repeated over and over because CCP has showed us that this is the only way that they really give anything they do much thought.
It's sad really, but it seems you need to make threadnaughts after threadnaughts to get them to pay attention. Even then they still go through and only after extensive lash back on TQ do they go back and either reverse their decisions or fix the problems.

Anyway, we're not asking you to do the impossible, just listen to the community. Think ahead, plan ahead, communicate ahead and PLEASE... stop screwing over a majority to appeal to a minority. I get the need to bring in and keep more noobies in here, however you need to do so properly, without pissing everyone else off.

Make the settings persist.
Bring back popups when safeties are off.

That's it.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Matthew97
#322 - 2012-12-03 14:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Matthew97
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
ANGRY23 wrote:

Retribution is imo the best release for a while and props to ccp for it but this idiocy has taken the shine off it for me and probably most of the low sec community. "Hey we can use drones on the gate guys and the gate guns wont kill them anymore but you have to remember to disable the half finished button on your hud before you can engage said drones. AND you have to disable every fecking time you log in until this part of the product you pay for is finished. Props


Pretty much this. I don't condone personal attacks either, however, it needs to be said and repeated over and over because CCP has showed us that this is the only way that they really give anything they do much thought.
It's sad really, but it seems you need to make threadnaughts after threadnaughts to get them to pay attention. Even then they still go through and only after extensive lash back on TQ do they go back and either reverse their decisions or fix the problems.

Anyway, we're not asking you to do the impossible, just listen to the community. Think ahead, plan ahead, communicate ahead and PLEASE... stop screwing over a majority to appeal to a minority. I get the need to bring in and keep more noobies in here, however you need to do so properly, without pissing everyone else off.

Make the settings persist.
Bring back popups when safeties are off.

That's it.


If you decide to take a gander at the Test Forum feedback, or even decide to log into the test server (this goes for everyone and not just the quoted) you'll see that this issue starts waaaaaaaay back into the development of Retri the best example of this are the god awful explosion effects:

Post after Post, thread after thread, 95% of the feedback is on how TERRIBLE the new explosion effects are, yet CCP has refused to comment on *any* of these posts or threads. If you mention something on the test server you'll probably get a dev reply saying "Thanks for the awsome feedback :D", as soon as you mention that you hate it and you dislike it, they all go quiet and don't speak for the next 10-20 mins.


The new explosions are more like this:

Quote:
The current TQ explosions (say for supers) is a whole: OMG BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM kinda feeling.

Now its just like: Did I kill a titan or a frigate?

(https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=178071&find=unread)


The point about the safety switch has already been raised, but again, no reply at all:

Safety Switch



Theres a whole range of different things I could bring up, but sad to say this dates back in every expansion, all bad feedback is ignored until 99% of TQ are crying about it, even if its raised during testing.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#323 - 2012-12-03 17:44:33 UTC
Kevin Emoto wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
ANGRY23 wrote:
Tumbleweed


Thanks for ignoring feedback and not replying to any questions.

Is there anyone from this dev team available to comment or will i come back on tuesday to and post in the feedback thread once its on tq and i have to have it cover my % readout and have to switch it off at every log in 3 or 4 times and nothing can be done till you start patching fixes. You cant seriously intend to roll out unfinished content.

You said it wasnt ready in time and im pretty sure you wouldnt put an half built gearbox in you car. If your mechanic told you your car would be ready on tuesday with a new gearbox and the gearbox wasnt finished would you just get him to fit it anyway or would you wait till the end of the week when he had it done properly?

More Tumbleweed

Angry23

He's already told you it's going in as is, and that making the settings persistant would be something added afterwards if enough people want it.

I realize you didn't like his answer, but that doesn't change the fact that your concern was responded to already.

I have little doubt that demand will continue to have the settings be made persistant. In fact, if this isn't on the plate for the point release afterwards I'll join you in needling them. But seriously, having checked it out on the test server it is no where near as onerous as you seem to think it will be. And yes, I operate extensively in all security levels of EvE space (with a slight emphasis on Low Sec).


And if we don't point out it sucks, how will CCP know we want the ability to turn off this care bear feature for ourselves? Stop your constant trolling of those of us who see an obvious flaw and inconsistency in the product, and go raise your post count elsewhere.


How will they know? Perhaps by the 17 pages of tear filled, personal insult spewing rants contained in this thread.

The same people chanting the same argument ad nauseam isn't necessary, especially when we ALL know the expansion is feature locked at this point.

If you'll notice, I"m in favor of it being made persistant as well. I'm just pointing out mindless insulting rants are not needed nor appreciated, by anyone.

By the way, you'll know it if I ever decide to start trolling a thread... and this isn't it. Blink

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
ANGRY23
Safety Set To Red
Train Wreck.
#324 - 2012-12-03 18:15:30 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Kevin Emoto wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
ANGRY23 wrote:
Tumbleweed


Thanks for ignoring feedback and not replying to any questions.

Is there anyone from this dev team available to comment or will i come back on tuesday to and post in the feedback thread once its on tq and i have to have it cover my % readout and have to switch it off at every log in 3 or 4 times and nothing can be done till you start patching fixes. You cant seriously intend to roll out unfinished content.

You said it wasnt ready in time and im pretty sure you wouldnt put an half built gearbox in you car. If your mechanic told you your car would be ready on tuesday with a new gearbox and the gearbox wasnt finished would you just get him to fit it anyway or would you wait till the end of the week when he had it done properly?

More Tumbleweed

Angry23

He's already told you it's going in as is, and that making the settings persistant would be something added afterwards if enough people want it.

I realize you didn't like his answer, but that doesn't change the fact that your concern was responded to already.

I have little doubt that demand will continue to have the settings be made persistant. In fact, if this isn't on the plate for the point release afterwards I'll join you in needling them. But seriously, having checked it out on the test server it is no where near as onerous as you seem to think it will be. And yes, I operate extensively in all security levels of EvE space (with a slight emphasis on Low Sec).


And if we don't point out it sucks, how will CCP know we want the ability to turn off this care bear feature for ourselves? Stop your constant trolling of those of us who see an obvious flaw and inconsistency in the product, and go raise your post count elsewhere.


How will they know? Perhaps by the 17 pages of tear filled, personal insult spewing rants contained in this thread.

The same people chanting the same argument ad nauseam isn't necessary, especially when we ALL know the expansion is feature locked at this point.

If you'll notice, I"m in favor of it being made persistant as well. I'm just pointing out mindless insulting rants are not needed nor appreciated, by anyone.

By the way, you'll know it if I ever decide to start trolling a thread... and this isn't it. Blink


I dont recall my posts being ninja'ed for personal attacks but w/e

Please stop posting unrelated bile. You are in favour of it being persistant you just dont leave high sec often enough for it to trouble you. We know now so stop filling the thread up with rubbish so when devs actually do get round to reading it they dont have to scroll through the petty arguements to get to the feedback and concerns.

Stay on topic or gtfo
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#325 - 2012-12-03 18:39:51 UTC
ANGRY23 wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Kevin Emoto wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
ANGRY23 wrote:
Tumbleweed


Thanks for ignoring feedback and not replying to any questions.

Is there anyone from this dev team available to comment or will i come back on tuesday to and post in the feedback thread once its on tq and i have to have it cover my % readout and have to switch it off at every log in 3 or 4 times and nothing can be done till you start patching fixes. You cant seriously intend to roll out unfinished content.

You said it wasnt ready in time and im pretty sure you wouldnt put an half built gearbox in you car. If your mechanic told you your car would be ready on tuesday with a new gearbox and the gearbox wasnt finished would you just get him to fit it anyway or would you wait till the end of the week when he had it done properly?

More Tumbleweed

Angry23

He's already told you it's going in as is, and that making the settings persistant would be something added afterwards if enough people want it.

I realize you didn't like his answer, but that doesn't change the fact that your concern was responded to already.

I have little doubt that demand will continue to have the settings be made persistant. In fact, if this isn't on the plate for the point release afterwards I'll join you in needling them. But seriously, having checked it out on the test server it is no where near as onerous as you seem to think it will be. And yes, I operate extensively in all security levels of EvE space (with a slight emphasis on Low Sec).


And if we don't point out it sucks, how will CCP know we want the ability to turn off this care bear feature for ourselves? Stop your constant trolling of those of us who see an obvious flaw and inconsistency in the product, and go raise your post count elsewhere.


How will they know? Perhaps by the 17 pages of tear filled, personal insult spewing rants contained in this thread.

The same people chanting the same argument ad nauseam isn't necessary, especially when we ALL know the expansion is feature locked at this point.

If you'll notice, I"m in favor of it being made persistant as well. I'm just pointing out mindless insulting rants are not needed nor appreciated, by anyone.

By the way, you'll know it if I ever decide to start trolling a thread... and this isn't it. Blink


I dont recall my posts being ninja'ed for personal attacks but w/e

Please stop posting unrelated bile. You are in favour of it being persistant you just dont leave high sec often enough for it to trouble you. We know now so stop filling the thread up with rubbish so when devs actually do get round to reading it they dont have to scroll through the petty arguements to get to the feedback and concerns.

Stay on topic or gtfo


Well, that is one of the more amusing posts I have read on the forum recently. Smile

Most of my time lately is spent in low, followed closely by Null. I occasionally come into High Sec to do some industry or enjoy a little mindless mayhem on one of my alts on either side in RvB.

Of course that's neither here nor there, you're simply trying to insult someone (yet again) that thinks you're getting your panties in a twist about a minor annoyance.

As far as putting a stop to filling this thread with rubbish goes, perhaps you should follow your own advice Jr. Blink

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#326 - 2012-12-03 19:49:37 UTC
I've not been responding further to the "persistance" issue because I try to avoid posting unless I have something to contribute, and my answer today is the same that it was when I explained it earlier in this thread, and again during the New Eden Open: we didn't have time to implement it in time for Retribution.

This wouldn't normally be a problem, but our time machine is having its 100,000 year service this month, so we were rather embarassingly caught in the position of not being able to just create a couple of extra days last week to finish up everything we wanted to do. This is entirely my fault - we had some text that missed the translation deadline so I popped back to ask Nikolai Telsa to do it, and accidentally ticked past 100,000 in the process. Sorry.
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#327 - 2012-12-03 22:19:59 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I've not been responding further to the "persistance" issue because I try to avoid posting unless I have something to contribute, and my answer today is the same that it was when I explained it earlier in this thread, and again during the New Eden Open: we didn't have time to implement it in time for Retribution.

This wouldn't normally be a problem, but our time machine is having its 100,000 year service this month, so we were rather embarassingly caught in the position of not being able to just create a couple of extra days last week to finish up everything we wanted to do. This is entirely my fault - we had some text that missed the translation deadline so I popped back to ask Nikolai Telsa to do it, and accidentally ticked past 100,000 in the process. Sorry.


Thank you.

But given the amount of concerns worrying about whether "IF" it would be implemented, especially after your last forum post, you could have at least reassured us that it would.

Anyway, I'm sure this discussion will be continued after tomorrow on the expansion feedback thread. See you then and there o/

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#328 - 2012-12-03 23:13:48 UTC
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I've not been responding further to the "persistance" issue because I try to avoid posting unless I have something to contribute, and my answer today is the same that it was when I explained it earlier in this thread, and again during the New Eden Open: we didn't have time to implement it in time for Retribution.

This wouldn't normally be a problem, but our time machine is having its 100,000 year service this month, so we were rather embarassingly caught in the position of not being able to just create a couple of extra days last week to finish up everything we wanted to do. This is entirely my fault - we had some text that missed the translation deadline so I popped back to ask Nikolai Telsa to do it, and accidentally ticked past 100,000 in the process. Sorry.


Thank you.

But given the amount of concerns worrying about whether "IF" it would be implemented, especially after your last forum post, you could have at least reassured us that it would.

Anyway, I'm sure this discussion will be continued after tomorrow on the expansion feedback thread. See you then and there o/


I say "if" because I'm *very* careful about not telling you all anything other than the absolute truth, or as close an approximation of it as I can feasibly manage. It's true that we wanted to do it for Retribution but we didn't have time. It's true that we'd like to get it done ASAP after Retribution. I can't at this point, though, claim that it's true that we *will* get it done soon after Retribution, because I can't know that right now. If, for example, we find a major issue with the code we're shipping in Retribution, that will push all our other planning back by whatever amount of time is needed to fix the more pressing problems.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#329 - 2012-12-04 02:11:29 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I can't at this point, though, claim that it's true that we *will* get it done soon after Retribution, because I can't know that right now. If, for example, we find a major issue with the code we're shipping in Retribution, that will push all our other planning back by whatever amount of time is needed to fix the more pressing problems.


Unacceptable! Your lack of psychic foresight is dismaying, to say the least.

I also happen to work for a time machine company, so you're not fooling me. I know exactly how long it takes to get these things done and "not enough time" is bullshit, frankly. Your clever "in-service" excuse isn't cutting either it because no matter how long it actually takes to undergo repairs, future Greyscale can jump back to the time before the breakdown with any bit of information present Greyscale needs. It's still your fault, even if you aren't actually him.

The only conclusion one can reasonably come to in light of your time machine admission is that you must be lying through your teeth when you tell us you "never intended" for your time to run short on this project. Just be honest with the players and admit that you secretly love being called the worst dev and having everyone blog about you. I'm just not cool with the "never intended" excuse being trotted out yet again, especially since you were already called on it earlier today.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
ANGRY23
Safety Set To Red
Train Wreck.
#330 - 2012-12-04 05:13:16 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I've not been responding further to the "persistance" issue because I try to avoid posting unless I have something to contribute, and my answer today is the same that it was when I explained it earlier in this thread, and again during the New Eden Open: we didn't have time to implement it in time for Retribution.

This wouldn't normally be a problem, but our time machine is having its 100,000 year service this month, so we were rather embarassingly caught in the position of not being able to just create a couple of extra days last week to finish up everything we wanted to do. This is entirely my fault - we had some text that missed the translation deadline so I popped back to ask Nikolai Telsa to do it, and accidentally ticked past 100,000 in the process. Sorry.



I watched evetv last night and you answered most questions/concerns from this thread but actually replying here carries more weight imo. For me the annoying thing was no dev activity for nearly a week which looks like the concerns/feedback were being ignored. I know i'll stfu now and watch feedback threads for updates now i heard it from the horses mouth and im sure more ppl will too as we now have a direct reply from the dev behind the blog. There were 3500 ppl on that stream iirc and im sure i can bet that at least double that will log in 2m after the patch and not even know what the safety is which is why it is good to have threads like this with dev activity for ppl who dont bother to read the patch notes or follow blogs and go on test server to try it.

Its the day before winter expansion and you have taken the time to come here and reply to our whineage so props for that and also props for staying in char for the 2nd half of your post.

Fix that time machine ffs and give me my persistance please sirPirate
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#331 - 2012-12-19 16:04:34 UTC
Ok, safety persistance should now be working as described in today's patchnotes (1.0.7).
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#332 - 2012-12-19 16:26:46 UTC
AWESOME!!!!!!
Any thoughts on bringing back popups when safety are off? It will give new players more of a confidence to turn off safety and teach them which actions are bad and result in what. That will also allow us to distinguish between accidents and intended actions as they often happen within the same time frame.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#333 - 2012-12-19 16:30:27 UTC
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
AWESOME!!!!!!
Any thoughts on bringing back popups when safety are off? It will give new players more of a confidence to turn off safety and teach them which actions are bad and result in what. That will also allow us to distinguish between accidents and intended actions as they often happen within the same time frame.


Wouldn't that go against the whole idea of the "safety" system?

Since you can switch safety between, safe, suspect and criminal.

Set safety to 'suspect' or 'criminal' and accept that it's down to your judgement.

Or leave it at 'safe'.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#334 - 2012-12-19 16:59:30 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
AWESOME!!!!!!
Any thoughts on bringing back popups when safety are off? It will give new players more of a confidence to turn off safety and teach them which actions are bad and result in what. That will also allow us to distinguish between accidents and intended actions as they often happen within the same time frame.


Wouldn't that go against the whole idea of the "safety" system?

Since you can switch safety between, safe, suspect and criminal.

Set safety to 'suspect' or 'criminal' and accept that it's down to your judgement.

Or leave it at 'safe'.


There are numerous examples above which I'm tired of re-quoting, but to answer your question, no. Anyway, if they ever bring those back they should have an option to be disabled like with almost every other popup. If you wanted to, you'd never see the popup and rely solely on safety mode, while others would need to bypass the popup when safety is off. There would be no change when safety is on and no hostile actions would be permitted.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!