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Destroyer and battlecruiser skill changes, Time frame?
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Spyriadon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-12-03 13:36:14 UTC
Simply put has there been a timeframe for these skill changes listed?

I managed to fit in the Destroyer V and last racial frigate skill i did not have to V.
So im fine for the destroyer skill change but the Battlecruiser skills are an issue,
I'm missing two skills at level V for Amarr and Mini and while i have BC V i don't want to miss out.

Any hints on if the skill changes will be for tomorrow or will come in the next expansion?
I've read people saying that the destroyer changes will be tomorrow and the BC changes in the summer?

thanks - Spy
Cambion Andedare
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-12-03 13:40:18 UTC
I would also like to know this well in advance. I wouldn't want to lose 20-ish days of traning time because i wasn't able to finish training BC to lvl 5 in time.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#3 - 2012-12-03 14:17:00 UTC
As in last gazzillion of threads with the same question: no, there is no timeframe nor definitive info on when and exactly how. Except of vague sentence from devblog hinting it would be a good idea to train those skills "soon".

Invalid signature format
Miss Latasha
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-12-03 15:11:48 UTC
wasn't it goin to be: racial frig IV -> racial dessie IV -> racial cruiser IV -> racial BC IV -> racial BS ?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#5 - 2012-12-03 15:15:43 UTC
Spyriadon wrote:
Simply put has there been a timeframe for these skill changes listed?

I managed to fit in the Destroyer V and last racial frigate skill i did not have to V.
So im fine for the destroyer skill change but the Battlecruiser skills are an issue,
I'm missing two skills at level V for Amarr and Mini and while i have BC V i don't want to miss out.

Any hints on if the skill changes will be for tomorrow or will come in the next expansion?
I've read people saying that the destroyer changes will be tomorrow and the BC changes in the summer?

thanks - Spy


You don't need Frigates at V to get the 4 racial Destroyer skills. Ditto Cruisers for the racial Battlecruisers. IIRC, the requirement is 3 for both.

BC skill isn't scheduled for tomorrow, but for "later", most likely not until after the battlecruiser ships have been 'tiercided'.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#6 - 2012-12-03 15:24:59 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
You don't need Frigates at V to get the 4 racial Destroyer skills. Ditto Cruisers for the racial Battlecruisers. IIRC, the requirement is 3 for both.
^^ This, with the proviso that you need Frigate IV to get that Cruiser skill.

So, for max cash-out when the change happens (and no, there is no exact information about when that will be — only stuff that's relative to other points in time that we also don't know when they'll happen), you're going to need to following:

All racial Frigates IV (362,032 SP)
Destroyers V (512,000 SP)
All racial Cruisers III (160,000 SP)
Battlecruisers V (1,536,000 SP).
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#7 - 2012-12-03 19:23:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Although their has been no definitive answer from CCP on exactly how or when the changes will come. The last word from CCP FOZZIE was train them now. If the change comes mid January(not confirmed in any way) that 20-25 days will need to start soon to complete in time.

Think about it. If they just decide to implement it in mid January with only 1-2 days notice what will happen.?

Will you complain, oh no, I don't have enough time now, WTF?

CCP will say, we told you many months ago this change was coming. If you did not train the skills in that time, it is your own fault. CCP has not said when it will be implemented. CCP Fozzie did say a week or two ago, train them now.

How much bigger of a hint do you need? A CCP dev telling you, train them now! Is about as obvious as a HUGE NEON SIGN right in front of you.

I would suggest if you have not already done so, train them now! If you decide to wait because your current remap will not be optimized for it, that is your loss if you miss the window.

Train it now, or STFU. If the change happens and you miss the opportunity you will look like a real idiot for not getting it done now.

I trained them all months ago when the dev blog came out. you do not need anything to 5 but the actual dessy and BC skills. frig 4, cruiser 4, for each race. In fact current requirements for BC are only cruiser 3 so even getting each races cruiser to 4 can wait until after getting destroyers and battlecruisers to 5 just to be sure you get them.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2012-12-03 19:34:37 UTC
Plus which, and this can't be said too often, Battlecruisers 5 is just a great skill to have even if they're not doing the skill split for another 6 months; you won't regret it.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#9 - 2012-12-03 20:55:49 UTC
Rebalancing EVE, One Ship At A Time
reported by CCP Ytterbium | 2012.03.06 19:21:59

Back To The Balancing Future
reported by CCP Ytterbium | 2012.11.06 14:49:54

So we knew it was coming in early March, and told again in early November, which doesn't include all the other discussions about it in-between.

Seriously, how much more notice do people need?


I know I completed it months ago after the first dev blog:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
#39 Posted: 2012.04.23 17:33
Finished Battlecruisers 5 this morning Big smile Did Destroyers 5 just before that.
Spyriadon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-12-03 21:45:15 UTC
I'm not asking for notice.
You all seem to have mis-interpreted what i was asking for. i was asking for a date and people are still saying they aren't sure.
Thats fine but i never said you HAD to get the racial skills to V either

i was merely stating that i wanted to because as listed in the post, my ability to fly these ships at the max level would be reimbursed simply put i would get the skill given to me at level 5.

I dont know if having the BC V and racial cruiser at 3 will give you the new skills at level 5 but naturally training these skills to level 5 would lead to maximum reimbursement, giving me the Caldari battle cruiser skill at level 5 for example. Again the wording on all this has been difficult for me to interpret.

-spy
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#11 - 2012-12-03 21:47:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Spyriadon wrote:
I dont know if having the BC V and racial cruiser at 3 will give you the new skills at level 5
It will. So sayeth the devs.

“If you can fly it now, you'll be able to fly it at the same level” is hardly ambiguous or hard to interpret.
Varactyl Charante
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-12-03 23:31:23 UTC
I don't know about you people but my suggestion is: Plug in the best implants you have and try to get it done before 2013.

If you can do that you should be golden.

I'm sorry to whoever had the hostage, but I may have just sawed them in half.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#13 - 2012-12-03 23:39:03 UTC
Spyriadon wrote:
I dont know if having the BC V and racial cruiser at 3 will give you the new skills at level 5 but naturally training these skills to level 5 would lead to maximum reimbursement, giving me the Caldari battle cruiser skill at level 5 for example. Again the wording on all this has been difficult for me to interpret.

No need to interpret, as CCP Fozzie has spelled things out quite simply.

My post copied from Does 24 days X 4 Races + 9 days X 4 Races = 132 Days Saved.

Tau Cabalander wrote:
Just to avoid any misunderstanding:

Destroyer level X + Racial Frigate 3 = Racial Destroyer level X

Battlecruiser level X + Racial Cruiser Level 3 = Racial Battlecruiser level X

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2145728#post2145728
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2145814#post2145814 [best example]
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2146090#post2146090
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2149140#post2149140

CCP Fozzie wrote:
We'll do the destroyer and battlecruiser skills in one batch, after the BC and BS rebalance is done.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2155506#post2155506

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Want to make this clear to everyone, the stuff in this blog is not coming on the 4th with Retribution. This blog covers some of what we are going to be working on in the beginning of next year.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2145578#post2145578

CCP Fozzie wrote:
I'll come right out and say the skill changes will not come on December 4th with Retribution but that you should still seriously consider taking them into account when you pick your next skills.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2146465#post2146465


Destroyers 5 (rank 2) = 2 * 256,000 skill points
Battlecruisers 5 (rank 6) = 6 * 256,000 skill points

Max Free Skill Points = 3 * Destroyers 5 + 3 * Battlecruisers 5
= 3 * (2 * 256,000) + 3 * (6 * 256,000)
= 6,144,000

Free Training Time @ 2,700 skill points per hour = Max Free Skill Points / 2,700
= 6,144,000 / 2,700
= 2,275.55 hours
= 94d 19h 33m 20s
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#14 - 2012-12-04 00:20:36 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Although their has been no definitive answer from CCP on exactly how or when the changes will come. The last word from CCP FOZZIE was train them now. If the change comes mid January(not confirmed in any way) that 20-25 days will need to start soon to complete in time.

Think about it. If they just decide to implement it in mid January with only 1-2 days notice what will happen.?

Will you complain, oh no, I don't have enough time now, WTF?

CCP will say, we told you many months ago this change was coming. If you did not train the skills in that time, it is your own fault. CCP has not said when it will be implemented. CCP Fozzie did say a week or two ago, train them now.

How much bigger of a hint do you need? A CCP dev telling you, train them now! Is about as obvious as a HUGE NEON SIGN right in front of you.

I would suggest if you have not already done so, train them now! If you decide to wait because your current remap will not be optimized for it, that is your loss if you miss the window.

Train it now, or STFU. If the change happens and you miss the opportunity you will look like a real idiot for not getting it done now.

I trained them all months ago when the dev blog came out. you do not need anything to 5 but the actual dessy and BC skills. frig 4, cruiser 4, for each race. In fact current requirements for BC are only cruiser 3 so even getting each races cruiser to 4 can wait until after getting destroyers and battlecruisers to 5 just to be sure you get them.

This.

+1 for Bugsy.

Remove standings and insurance.
Bono One
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-12-04 01:57:25 UTC
If my understanding is correct there is some benefit to L5 topping off Destroyers, Battlecruisers, Amarr Frigate (1st Racial Rebalance), Caldari Frigate, Gallente Frigate and then Minmatar Frigate.

Yes, I have read this;
Dev Blog

And in this thread I have learned that there might be some disadvantage (losing 20 days of skill training) if you do not do this. Is it possible that the extremely vague statement made by a dev was a tongue in cheek joke to see how many people will all start training these 6 skills to L5 asap?

So what is the advantage of doing so? If they do split Destroyers (why would anyone use one?) and Battlecruisers training into the four races, are they going to give special treatment to those whom already have alll of these skills at L5, or balance their value as well?

I have actually started training my best "keepers" that have 50-100m sp each up to these levels while most already have them all at L5, but .... What's the advantage? Somehow I am missing that....
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#16 - 2012-12-04 12:57:18 UTC
Bono One wrote:
If my understanding is correct there is some benefit to L5 topping off Destroyers, Battlecruisers, Amarr Frigate (1st Racial Rebalance), Caldari Frigate, Gallente Frigate and then Minmatar Frigate.
Only the usual benefit for most of them, with the added benefit from Destroyers and BCs that you get a couple of skill levels for free when the switch-over happens.

The basic rule from day 1 was always “if you could fly it before, you can fly it after”, which quite naturally translates into being given the same Racial BC (and Destroyer) levels as you current have in the one BC (and Destroyer) skill. This has been confirmed over and over and over again ever since. There simply is no ambiguity whatsoever at this point.

Quote:
Is it possible that the extremely vague statement made by a dev was a tongue in cheek joke to see how many people will all start training these 6 skills to L5 asap?
What's vague about it, and how do you make it six skills? It's only two that will change: Destroyers and BCs.
Frank Millar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-12-04 13:44:54 UTC
I trained BC V long before I got Gallente and Caldari Cruiser to V, and I still need to do Amarr and Minmatar Cruiser V.
This was right after there was first talk of this possible change.

It helped that I am on a 2 year Perception/Willpower remap, but even if I was not, It'd still be a no-brainer.

And there still is plenty of time and I feel it's been pointed out plenty of times (either in this thread or the dozens of others) that people are seeing problems where there are none.

It's a no-brainer. Read the pre-reqs for the BC skill, train them, train BC to V. Crisis averted.
Bono One
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-12-05 02:03:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Bono One
Howdy Tippia

This "Basic Rule from day 1" is interesting. Do you have a link to where someone stated an advantage such as "if you could fly it before, you can fly it after"? Whom said that and where?

All documents considered would indicate that there will be 8 new skill books, 4X Racial Destroyers, 4X Racial Battlecruisers.

By 6 skills I meant Destroyers, Battlecruisers and 4x Racial Frigates in the loosely documented scramble.

I'm guessing that if you have L5 Battlecruisers trained to L5 that you will automatically be given L1 to the new 4 skills; Amarr Battlecruiser, Caldari Battlecruiser, Gallente Battlecruiser and Minmatar Battlecuriser. So yeah you can fly it, with a whole new 24-32 day training period, for hopefully (4) new ships.

Same with the 4 new Destroyers released today.

I want the Drake Navy Issue! Big smile

BONO ONE



Tippia wrote:
Bono One wrote:
If my understanding is correct there is some benefit to L5 topping off Destroyers, Battlecruisers, Amarr Frigate (1st Racial Rebalance), Caldari Frigate, Gallente Frigate and then Minmatar Frigate.
Only the usual benefit for most of them, with the added benefit from Destroyers and BCs that you get a couple of skill levels for free when the switch-over happens.

The basic rule from day 1 was always “if you could fly it before, you can fly it after”, which quite naturally translates into being given the same Racial BC (and Destroyer) levels as you current have in the one BC (and Destroyer) skill. This has been confirmed over and over and over again ever since. There simply is no ambiguity whatsoever at this point.

Quote:
Is it possible that the extremely vague statement made by a dev was a tongue in cheek joke to see how many people will all start training these 6 skills to L5 asap?
What's vague about it, and how do you make it six skills? It's only two that will change: Destroyers and BCs.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#19 - 2012-12-05 05:11:14 UTC
Bono One wrote:
Howdy Tippia

This "Basic Rule from day 1" is interesting. Do you have a link to where someone stated an advantage such as "if you could fly it before, you can fly it after"? Whom said that and where?

All documents considered would indicate that there will be 8 new skill books, 4X Racial Destroyers, 4X Racial Battlecruisers.

By 6 skills I meant Destroyers, Battlecruisers and 4x Racial Frigates in the loosely documented scramble.

I'm guessing that if you have L5 Battlecruisers trained to L5 that you will automatically be given L1 to the new 4 skills; Amarr Battlecruiser, Caldari Battlecruiser, Gallente Battlecruiser and Minmatar Battlecuriser. So yeah you can fly it, with a whole new 24-32 day training period, for hopefully (4) new ships.

Same with the 4 new Destroyers released today.


You could do a whole lot worse than starting to read here. Especially this quote:

CCP Eterne wrote:
If you could fly it before, you will be able to do so after the change. You will be automatically given the new racial BC and Destroyer skills at your current BC/Destroyer skill level if you also have the corresponding racial Cruiser/Frigate skill to 3.


Bold in original.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#20 - 2012-12-05 21:33:30 UTC
Bono One wrote:
This "Basic Rule from day 1" is interesting. Do you have a link to where someone stated an advantage such as "if you could fly it before, you can fly it after"? Whom said that and where?
Look at the blog link you provided (and presumably read). It was the first we heard on the matter, and maybe a third down the page, just be fore the “Stating the not so obvious” section, you have your quote:

“the principle of the reimbursement will be ‘if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today.’”

This was soon thereafter clarified as meaning “the skill level you have in the ship afterwards will be the same as before”. The only skill that provides bonuses to BCs is the BC skill, even though they current have a cruiser prerequisite to fly (which they'll lose in the switch-over, btw). Same goes for the frigate skill prerequisite for the destroyers.

Quote:
All documents considered would indicate that there will be 8 new skill books, 4X Racial Destroyers, 4X Racial Battlecruisers.

By 6 skills I meant Destroyers, Battlecruisers and 4x Racial Frigates in the loosely documented scramble.
Ok. What do the frigate skills have to do with anything? The reason I'm saying it's only two that matter is because there are only two that will be adjusted: Battlecruisers and Destroyers, both of which will be split into racial versions..

Quote:
I'm guessing that if you have L5 Battlecruisers trained to L5 that you will automatically be given L1 to the new 4 skills; Amarr Battlecruiser, Caldari Battlecruiser, Gallente Battlecruiser and Minmatar Battlecuriser.
No. If you have Battlecruisers V (or Destroyers V) and the other skills required to use the ships for any one race, you will be given the Racial Battlecruiser (and Destroyer, respectively) skill at lvl V — you will not lose any ability to field the ships you can already fly.

[racial] Cruiser III + Battlecruisers [n] → [racial] Battlecruiser [n]
[racial] Frigate III + Destroyers [n] → [racial] Destroyer [n]

Training the Cruiser or Frigate skills higher than III makes absolutely no difference whatsoever since those skills are not being adjusted — they are just used to determine whether you can fly any particular dessy or BC right now.
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