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Does lowsec need a buff?
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psycho freak
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#101 - 2012-12-02 09:46:29 UTC
Cyprus Black wrote:
Remove cynos from lowsec and it will stop the hot dropping in lowsec. It will also cut down on the insane power projection that super mega alliances cling to.

Beef up station and gate sentry guns. In their current state they're easily tankable and a joke. If you want highsec players to even step foot into lowsec, you need to let them enter without getting WTFINSTAKILLED after jumping in. Going from gate to gate or gate to station will be relatively safe (obviously not as safe as highsec) but belts and sites remain unchanged and just as dangerous.

Lower the NPC tax on PI. Currently highsec dwellers pay 11% whereas lowsec dwellers pay 17% and up. That doesn't make any sense and only discourages players from going to lowsec.

Beef up PI yields to be better than highsec.

Overhaul the belts in lowsec so they're better than highsec but not better than nullsec. As it is now, there's almost no legitimate reason to go mining in lowsec since the same asteroids are found in highsec.

More stations. Most of lowsec has no stations. The systems that do are typically infested with player pirates.

And that's about all the changes I believe are necessary to revive lowsec.




Hell no carbares and alt industrials already have hisec all fuzzy and warm we dont want losec any safer we live here becouse you make a mistake your dead you set up camp and dont know locals and what they can bring and what systems to scout for possible incoming hot drop your dead

losec is the best place in eve it just takes a little team work you can go solo i have a few times you just need to use your head and suss out the locals

If you want more ppl in losec make all empire losec job done

my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k

nop cant find it
Swifty Blowback
Doomheim
#102 - 2012-12-02 13:47:19 UTC
I'm sure a lot of people are going to hate this, but feck it, here goes...

Background: The true sec of a system is measured on a scale of 1 to -1 with an accuracy of 4, yes that's FOUR decimal places. Examples:

Jita is 0.9459,
Amamake is 0.4388,
Tisot is 0.0899,
98Q-80 is -0.3904

For some crazy reason all of this lovely resolution is made redundant by grouping them into the 3 big chunks of

High Sec is +1 to +0.5
Low Sec is +0.5 to 0
Null sec is 0 to -1

Yeah I know there are some tiny differences within those 3 groupings but they count for little.

So, why not have a much finer system based on the true sec of a system? As an example, if you're naughty in Jita, you get properly screwed by a vast quantity of immensely powerful concord ships in very short time. There are 20+ gate guns all chucking out crazy dps. If you're naughty in say Tisot, you might have a concord cruiser come and shoot you and gate guns don't do much damage. In the most lawless of space you'll have a concord frigate with it's turrets hanging off, a broken mwd & no scram, piloted by an incompetent fool who got lost on the way to come and err "correct" your bad behaviour. Gate gun dps would be around 2. Oh yeah, for this to work properly, all of concord must be destroyable *grin*. Also bribing concord to look the other way for a while would be cool (cost varies hugely on various factors including system sec). Anyway, I'm digressing...

Along with this a whole rescaling of risk vs reward would have to take place on a much much finer scale than it is now, but I don't see this being a problem. e.g. a simple algorithm to spawn roids would dump a lot of low value stuff in higher sec systems & the high value stuff in very low sec systems. Same goes with explorations sites, missions etc.

I appreciate this would be a massive change to a lot of stuff, but it'd remove the whole "oooh low sec, I'd never go there" attitudes (as there would be no boundary to define low sec) and a lot of people would slowly creep into less secure systems to try and make a little bit more ISK. The whole game would be a lot more dynamic.

TLDR Remove High low and null and have a very fine granular system of safety throughout the universe accompanied by a newly defined risk vs reward balance for all activities that require flying a spaceship.
Eternal Error
Doomheim
#103 - 2012-12-02 17:13:28 UTC
Lowsec does need a buff, but a good portion of the risk/reward rebalance has to come from a highsec nerf. Lowsec could use better ore belts and better belt rats (or perhaps bounties in general), but the fact remains that rewards in highsec are too high (especially after Retribution makes it even safer).

Redistributing some systems could have a positive effect as well. Once you get past the lowsec systems bordering contiguous highsec, there are plenty of systems to PvE in where you won't get harassed every ten minutes. The game needs more regions like solitude (although I favor moving existing systems to creating more).
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#104 - 2012-12-02 18:17:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyprus Black
psycho freak wrote:


Hell no carbares and alt industrials already have hisec all fuzzy and warm we dont want losec any safer we live here becouse you make a mistake your dead you set up camp and dont know locals and what they can bring and what systems to scout for possible incoming hot drop your dead

losec is the best place in eve it just takes a little team work you can go solo i have a few times you just need to use your head and suss out the locals

If you want more ppl in losec make all empire losec job done
Dismissive that quickly? Did you even read it or did you simply read the first couple of words, assume it's about dumbing down EvE, then hastily vomited up your opinion? Cause I'm thinking the latter.

Look, putting your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and chanting loudly that carebears should stay out won't fix lowsec. There are fundamental things wrong with lowsec which is barring most of EvE from going there. If CCP really wants players to go to lowsec, they're going to have to make it appealing to all players, not just pirates.

We need traders industrialists and miners out there doing their thing. They in turn need protection by corpmates who are PvP savvy. Suddenly you have entire corporations willing and able to take those risks you "pvp types" rattle on so much about.

In other words, corporations need a good reason to live out there. Currently it's either FW, piracy or anti piracy. That's it. Lowsec pirates are always complaining about how there's nobody left to shoot at, yet they berate any notion of attracting the "carebear" corporations? Ridiculous. Bring the corporations out there and I guarantee yarr and anti-yarr will become far more common place.

At the very least, try to provide constructive feedback and ideas on improving lowsec as I have.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#105 - 2012-12-02 18:34:11 UTC
Swifty Blowback wrote:
Oh yeah, for this to work properly, all of concord must be destroyable *grin*. Also bribing concord to look the other way for a while would be cool (cost varies hugely on various factors including system sec).

Yeah, no.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#106 - 2012-12-02 18:36:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Cyprus Black wrote:
Look, putting your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and chanting loudly that carebears should stay out won't fix lowsec.

Just camp the gate, that'll keep the carebears out. o/ carebears

Lowsec still isn't fixed though. Heh

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Swifty Blowback
Doomheim
#107 - 2012-12-02 19:31:41 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Swifty Blowback wrote:
Oh yeah, for this to work properly, all of concord must be destroyable *grin*. Also bribing concord to look the other way for a while would be cool (cost varies hugely on various factors including system sec).

Yeah, no.

Yeah, yeah!
YuuKnow
The Scope
#108 - 2012-12-02 19:47:11 UTC
I think what discourages Low Sec from being more populated is the fact that the large cap/supercap fleets can at will cyno in to crush any POSs there.

There should be a difference between null sec and low sec in terms of cap warfare. The game would be better if the 'higher' low sec systems (0.3 and 0.4) had cyno distributors. I bet you'll see a big jump in low sec population then.

yk
YuuKnow
The Scope
#109 - 2012-12-02 19:52:53 UTC
Cyprus Black wrote:
Remove cynos from lowsec and it will stop the hot dropping in lowsec. It will also cut down on the insane power projection that super mega alliances cling to.

Lower the NPC tax on PI. Currently highsec dwellers pay 11% whereas lowsec dwellers pay 17% and up. That doesn't make any sense and only discourages players from going to lowsec.


I agree with these two suggestions above with the caveat that removing cynos from "All" of low sec would be overkill. Would be better to remove them from some, but not all of low sec. Lower NPC tax is a good idea.

yk
Lasciel Anduriel
Lasciel Anduriel Corporation
#110 - 2012-12-02 20:55:11 UTC
I agree with other advocating nerfs to high sec non-trade professions.

Here's a few ideas for nerfing high sec.

1. Greatly reduce the number of high sec systems in the game by a large margin. Preferably, any system that isn't a noob area, major trade hub, or route between the major trade hubs should not be high sec.

2. Remove all farmable resources from high sec. Claim that they're all mined out.

3. Level 4 missions should all take place in low sec. This might sound really harsh, but if paired with my first suggestion it isn't so bad since so much more of the game's area is low sec.

4. Introduce "bodyguard" NPCs to the game. If a total carebear outfit wants to cross lowsec, or run a mission in lowsec, let them hire an escort, either NPC or player based (or both). Protection escort contracts are not only void if an escorted player shoots first, they're also aggro'd by their escorts.
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#111 - 2012-12-02 21:03:32 UTC
I disagree with nerfing anything in highsec.

Nerfing highsec will not make lowsec any less crappy. Lowsec will still have all the same problems as before since nothing is getting changed. You can't use the stick to drive players in a direction you intend. That almost never works. If highsec is nerfed, highsec dwellers won't say "Well gee, my favorite area of space got nerfed. I think I'll just move to an even crappier place".

There's a damn good reason why most players prefer to live in highsec rather than low or null. It's got less to do with profit and more to do with the terrible design of low and null. Nerfing highsec won't create an exodus to low or null. If anything it'll create an exodus to the account management page.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#112 - 2012-12-02 22:39:56 UTC
Lasciel Anduriel wrote:
2. Remove all farmable resources from high sec. Claim that they're all mined out.

Poor miners, they finally did it.

Defeated the asteroids.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Agromos nulKaedi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2012-12-03 02:21:31 UTC
Main reason I avoid 0.0 is bubbles. Sure they have a place. I've flown through some of them. They don't really bring me terror or anything. I just find them annoying. I don't like hitting bubble camps, and I don't like bubble camping. I like flying little ships around and not having to deal with big fleets. However, lowsec just doesn't have much there for me. Really, the core annoyance is that I find traps on chokepoints to be a bit annoying, and it leaves a bad taste in peoples' mouth when their first taste of PVP is to come through a gate only to be tackled and vaporized by a gate camp that requires skills to evade that they have never even heard of before.
I think it would be better to secure the heck out of the gates and stations - put CONCORD class weaponry in the sentry guns there - then say "If we didn't see it within range of the sentry/gate guns, it didn't happen (no sec status hits)".
Keep lowsec restrictions, but move the focus of the combat there away from gate camping and toward leaving the place full of pretty lucrative rewards, except that to venture out after any of them leaves you open to being attacked. That would make it so you can travel through lowsec pretty easily, as long as all you do is travel.. and traveling through it, instead of shying away from it in terror and most highsec residents do now, might lead people to go "They have fields of *what* here? Those look yummy.. And look at this other stuff.." hmm, we need to figure how to get at this.. maybe if I just sneak out and take a look in a frigate.."
Diamond Bull
Doomheim
#114 - 2012-12-03 03:21:59 UTC
The amount of buff that an area of space needs is directly related to where you live. Where you live always needs a buff but all of the space is fine.

High Sec has incursions and L4s. They are good income. Incursions is a great income if you're with the right group. Some people think this is bad. Some people also think the moon landing was faked.

Low Sec has FW which has a higher potential income than incursions if you're willing to put in the effort and do your research. Those who think low sec is worthless only think so because they waste so much time sitting on gates and camping stations.

0.0 has a very high potential income depending on the space you are in. Some regions are better than others but this is fine. It drives conflict... or lets people avoid said conflict. What ever, if you're happy with crap space where people leaves you alone then go for it. Even 0.0 grunts can make plenty of ISK if they stop beating their chests long enough to run some anoms.

My point? If you do your research and put in the time to earn ISK in your part of space I will still make more money than you by running freighters in and out of Jita.


Oh, also that if you put in the time and effort all types of space can be quite lucrative.

P.S. I didn't forget WHs. They're just silly. Yay, blue loot and Nano Ribbons!
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#115 - 2012-12-03 13:25:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
I'd like to point out lowsec PI has a little higher NPC tax, but players are supposed to knock down those Customs Offices and put down their own. In lowsec, there are two ways to achieve very low tax on a Customs Office. Both actions will require significantly more efffort then just putting down a Command Center and log off.

1. Contact the owner, tell him you will be his cashcow, get a Blue standing.
2. Pound it into spacedust and place your own Customs Office.

I'm exporting at 1-4% tax right now, on planets with a good yield. I think I have a better deal then anyone in hisec. Big smile
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#116 - 2012-12-03 14:02:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
As well, whatever group has the most kills in a system should be shown as the "occupants" of the system.


Yeah it's so hard to camp a gate with active links (OGB) +logis with a couple (10) friends. Indeed, kills should rule who deserves low sec, but then null sec and high sec alliances will become your overlords.

If something low sec doesn't need for sure is safe graveyard camping, this is already what you guys do and see the results. Pitiful


Do not camp with logis, don't know what camp you are seeing

and this is a single system, it doesn't make low sec a graveyard because it is disconnected from the rest of low sec.

and it is not safe, it is safe while people are too scared to have a fight.

This is not all we do, and we would not have to do it if PvP income wasn't so crap.

Also, what I said there was just a crap idea, nothing realistic. I was just illustrating how anti-pirating and pirating could be expanded to move towards small gang/gang pvp.

As well, the point of that idea is that there are hubs where certain low sec corporations are known to chill at. Snuff at sujarento, united at rancer/crielere, etc.

Taking these places away from a group has always been conversational topics in low sec, so why not make that into an actual construct?

On another note, CCP actually implemented drones not getting shot at by gate guns for retribution. Step 1 on fixing low sec PvP achieved. Now gallente pilots can come to low sec.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
CaptainFalcon07
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#117 - 2012-12-03 23:20:59 UTC
Well the initial inferno FW patch was a buff to lowsec, where you'd be able to grind lp quick and cash them out on Tier 5 day.

As much as people disliked the farmers, it did bring people to lowsec.

But CCP changed it, so it put lowsec back to where it was.



Its Impossible because: You can't buff lowsec to a worthwhile level without people whining and complaining about it.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#118 - 2012-12-03 23:54:09 UTC
Faction war is not a buff to low sec. Faction war PVP can take place anywhere, high sec, low sec, null, and wormhole space. Faction warfare PVE content only exists in a limited number of low sec systems. There are entire regions of low sec for which it is of minimal relevance, and given that it is such an ISK faucet, I'd actually call it a nerf to the rest of the game, including the rest of low sec. Besides that, it requires the player to virtually destroy his standings with two of the major factions. I could blow up a thousand noobs at a gate in Rancer and not do THAT. And even in the affected low sec regions, faction warfare requires you to be pre-flagged for combat to a large group of the players one might encounter there. That essentially makes it null sec without bubbles for those players involved.

I don't know how any of that equates to a low sec buff.
DrunkenNinja
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#119 - 2012-12-04 00:53:27 UTC  |  Edited by: DrunkenNinja
Agromos nulKaedi wrote:
Main reason I avoid 0.0 is bubbles. Sure they have a place. I've flown through some of them. They don't really bring me terror or anything. I just find them annoying. I don't like hitting bubble camps, and I don't like bubble camping. I like flying little ships around and not having to deal with big fleets. However, lowsec just doesn't have much there for me. Really, the core annoyance is that I find traps on chokepoints to be a bit annoying, and it leaves a bad taste in peoples' mouth when their first taste of PVP is to come through a gate only to be tackled and vaporized by a gate camp that requires skills to evade that they have never even heard of before.
I think it would be better to secure the heck out of the gates and stations - put CONCORD class weaponry in the sentry guns there - then say "If we didn't see it within range of the sentry/gate guns, it didn't happen (no sec status hits)".
Keep lowsec restrictions, but move the focus of the combat there away from gate camping and toward leaving the place full of pretty lucrative rewards, except that to venture out after any of them leaves you open to being attacked. That would make it so you can travel through lowsec pretty easily, as long as all you do is travel.. and traveling through it, instead of shying away from it in terror and most highsec residents do now, might lead people to go "They have fields of *what* here? Those look yummy.. And look at this other stuff.." hmm, we need to figure how to get at this.. maybe if I just sneak out and take a look in a frigate.."



Excellent post. +1
As you said, it would be a great idea to move the PvP away from gate camping and towards better resources in lowsec.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#120 - 2012-12-04 01:00:04 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
I'd like to point out lowsec PI has a little higher NPC tax, but players are supposed to knock down those Customs Offices and put down their own. In lowsec, there are two ways to achieve very low tax on a Customs Office. Both actions will require significantly more efffort then just putting down a Command Center and log off.

1. Contact the owner, tell him you will be his cashcow, get a Blue standing.
2. Pound it into spacedust and place your own Customs Office.

I'm exporting at 1-4% tax right now, on planets with a good yield. I think I have a better deal then anyone in hisec. Big smile

Yeah, tell me about PI tax... heh ^___^

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?