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[Updated][Winter] Missile Rebalance 2.0 + Hurricane tweak

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Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#6321 - 2012-12-03 11:30:55 UTC
Azriel X wrote:
I'm selling all of my drakes and as of yet, for 4million below market value no one wants them...

Well, drake will become relic of the past and no one will buy them, same goes for nighthawk and tengu.
Those ships will become obsolete.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#6322 - 2012-12-03 12:07:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlyn Tufy
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Drake will still hit *very* hard at long range. And the Caracal will be a beast.


Drake never hit very hard. It's a cheap ship with decent long range damage that doesn't require a lot of skills for decent performance, that's why it's used en masse. It can be a cool kiter in nano fit, it can be an immovable brick with tank fit, but the one attribute it never had was definitely damage. That remains unchanged in Retribution - the only major difference is that you'll need to get much closer to use the ranged weapons, which makes the nano fit a lot more vulnerable - that means a drake blob will be vulnerable to being torn to shreds by alpha battleships. Overwhelming numbers will still work, of course, it's just that losses will tend to be higher.

Quote:
SEMI-L;DR :
So, i've looked around, a tutorial for Eve Online.
When i've started with EVE, somebody told me : Go for a drake if you want L4.


I don't know who keeps on suggesting that, but Drake is downright horrible for L4s - and that's coming from someone who loves caldari missile ships and who uses Drake as the primary vessel in wars. Sure, you can use it to run them, but completion times are attrocious, it's like using a freighter to transport a 1m3 cargo 60 jumps away.

Spc One wrote:
Azriel X wrote:
I'm selling all of my drakes and as of yet, for 4million below market value no one wants them...

Well, drake will become relic of the past and no one will buy them, same goes for nighthawk and tengu.
Those ships will become obsolete.


Stop panicking and adapt, nothing's going to be obsolete. In fact, as primarily a Tengu/Drake pilot, I'm trully looking forward to Retribution, as now instead of one, I'll have two viable weapon systems <3
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#6323 - 2012-12-03 12:22:26 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Drake never hit very hard. It's a cheap ship with decent long range damage that doesn't require a lot of skills for decent performance, that's why it's used en masse. It can be a cool kiter in nano fit, it can be an immovable brick with tank fit, but the one attribute it never had was definitely damage.

You forgot half my sentence : "at long range". Even with 10% less damage, the Drake will have the best dps above 35km, and it will be a LOT more at 50km.

Hence, if the Drake have the best dps at long range by a large margin, we can say it hit very hard.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#6324 - 2012-12-03 13:08:18 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Drake never hit very hard. It's a cheap ship with decent long range damage that doesn't require a lot of skills for decent performance, that's why it's used en masse. It can be a cool kiter in nano fit, it can be an immovable brick with tank fit, but the one attribute it never had was definitely damage.

You forgot half my sentence : "at long range". Even with 10% less damage, the Drake will have the best dps above 35km, and it will be a LOT more at 50km.

Hence, if the Drake have the best dps at long range by a large margin, we can say it hit very hard.


Drakes never had the best dps at 35km, except against mwding ships at battlecruiser and above.

Basically, this thread is 300 pages of eft warrioring where people have literally no idea how missiles apply damage.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6325 - 2012-12-03 13:11:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Michael Harari wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Drake never hit very hard. It's a cheap ship with decent long range damage that doesn't require a lot of skills for decent performance, that's why it's used en masse. It can be a cool kiter in nano fit, it can be an immovable brick with tank fit, but the one attribute it never had was definitely damage.

You forgot half my sentence : "at long range". Even with 10% less damage, the Drake will have the best dps above 35km, and it will be a LOT more at 50km.

Hence, if the Drake have the best dps at long range by a large margin, we can say it hit very hard.


Drakes never had the best dps at 35km, except against mwding ships at battlecruiser and above.

Basically, this thread is 300 pages of eft warrioring where people have literally no idea how missiles apply damage.


Can you prove that I can shoot that Dramiel oribiting my Ferox at 30km with Spike?
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#6326 - 2012-12-03 13:15:42 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Drake never hit very hard. It's a cheap ship with decent long range damage that doesn't require a lot of skills for decent performance, that's why it's used en masse. It can be a cool kiter in nano fit, it can be an immovable brick with tank fit, but the one attribute it never had was definitely damage.

You forgot half my sentence : "at long range". Even with 10% less damage, the Drake will have the best dps above 35km, and it will be a LOT more at 50km.

Hence, if the Drake have the best dps at long range by a large margin, we can say it hit very hard.


Drakes never had the best dps at 35km, except against mwding ships at battlecruiser and above.

Basically, this thread is 300 pages of eft warrioring where people have literally no idea how missiles apply damage.


Can you prove that I can shoot that Dramiel oribiting my Ferox at 30km with Spike?


Why are you shooting spike at 30km?

(And yes, you can, since there is a set chance for you to hit for maximum damage)
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6327 - 2012-12-03 13:20:02 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Drake never hit very hard. It's a cheap ship with decent long range damage that doesn't require a lot of skills for decent performance, that's why it's used en masse. It can be a cool kiter in nano fit, it can be an immovable brick with tank fit, but the one attribute it never had was definitely damage.

You forgot half my sentence : "at long range". Even with 10% less damage, the Drake will have the best dps above 35km, and it will be a LOT more at 50km.

Hence, if the Drake have the best dps at long range by a large margin, we can say it hit very hard.


Drakes never had the best dps at 35km, except against mwding ships at battlecruiser and above.

Basically, this thread is 300 pages of eft warrioring where people have literally no idea how missiles apply damage.


Can you prove that I can shoot that Dramiel oribiting my Ferox at 30km with Spike?


Why are you shooting spike at 30km?

(And yes, you can, since there is a set chance for you to hit for maximum damage)


250s with Spike have trouble tracking Dramiel @ 70km, how do you think I would be able to hit at 30km.

It seems that you don't know how tracking works. It's not as simple as you think.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#6328 - 2012-12-03 13:44:28 UTC
Maybe you shouldnt use spike. Using non-terrible ammo, you can apply between 50 and 100 dps on a dram with a perfect orbit, and if he hits approach on you, you can blap him. At 75km for instance, spike is awful, and you should use lead.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6329 - 2012-12-03 14:38:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Michael Harari wrote:
Maybe you shouldnt use spike. Using non-terrible ammo, you can apply between 50 and 100 dps on a dram with a perfect orbit, and if he hits approach on you, you can blap him. At 75km for instance, spike is awful, and you should use lead.


Why on earth Dramiel pilot would hit approach? That would be extremely stupid thing to do.

54km + 15 with Lead by the way. Around 30% chance to hit if you can track it.
While that Dramiel doesn't have any problems hitting that tanked Ferox if it can get under those 250s.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#6330 - 2012-12-03 16:18:09 UTC
Frothgar wrote:
Its an interesting change. What sort of comparison (Damage/Range) are you looking at when compared to Rails/Beams. I'm worried that HMLs with short range ammo will still have more range, more damage, better fitting, and better damage application (Tracking/Explosion radius,Velocity)

Edit, Any chance for Rails/Beams to get an adjustment should HMLs still prove to be a no brainer at any range?


quit crying, missle ships are shield ships anyway and have no room for tackle usually.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6331 - 2012-12-03 18:05:14 UTC
Seranova Farreach wrote:
Frothgar wrote:
Its an interesting change. What sort of comparison (Damage/Range) are you looking at when compared to Rails/Beams. I'm worried that HMLs with short range ammo will still have more range, more damage, better fitting, and better damage application (Tracking/Explosion radius,Velocity)

Edit, Any chance for Rails/Beams to get an adjustment should HMLs still prove to be a no brainer at any range?


quit crying, missle ships are shield ships anyway and have no room for tackle usually.


Drake has one slot for point and one for web/painter.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#6332 - 2012-12-03 18:42:22 UTC
Faora Zod wrote:
So there is not any posts from a DEV stating that Drakes and or any other BCs are not meant to run Level 4s.... it is just like we have never seen a DEV say, we don't want everyone flying Drakes or canes it is just a bunch of players bitching about how others play this game. Do you people really think the DEVs actually give a **** what we use? Until a DEV actually states you are suppose to do level 4 missions in a BS your arguments are pointless.

And there won't be, ever.

You can use any ship in the game for whatever you want to, though your results may vary.

I can solo L4 missions in a Drake *right now*. I don't do it because there are better ships for the task.

If you have the skills to solo L4 missions in a Drake you have the skills for a better ship.

Plunk down a couple of hundred Misk to fly one of those ships and it will pay for itself in less time than you've spent complaining about the Drake being nerfed (and even the nerfed Drake should be able to run L4's, the technique and fitting will be a bit different is all).

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#6333 - 2012-12-04 10:36:51 UTC
Unsticking, let's make some space for future threads.
Krom Thomson
Jumpbridg
#6334 - 2012-12-05 20:51:27 UTC
so were can i put in for reinbursment for the last 10 months of training since you just F*U*C*K*E*D my accounts form of dps to shi*t all?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6335 - 2012-12-05 20:54:00 UTC
Krom Thomson wrote:
so were can i put in for reinbursment for the last 10 months of training since you just F*U*C*K*E*D my accounts form of dps to shi*t all?

Right after the nano pilots, SC pilots, 90% web Gallente pilots, Cruise trained SB pilots... Yeah, let us know how that works out.
Meera Delonier
The Evocati
#6336 - 2012-12-06 21:10:32 UTC
So basically the largest ship to fit medium moduals can no longer fit a full rack of them... they have to use smaller sized medium moduals with larger?


Seriously this is how you fixed this? .................................................. ahh.............. uh....... like ......... Roll
jonny330
Ivy Mike's Munitions Expulsion Services
#6337 - 2012-12-16 18:09:42 UTC
Something I don't understand, they refer to the Heavy missiles as the long range medium missiles and HAMs as the short range, but they've decreased the range of the heavy missiles.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6338 - 2012-12-16 18:44:20 UTC
I got to say that I used to have a HAM Legion that was somewhat good... now it is a bad ship...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6339 - 2012-12-17 03:13:44 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
I got to say that I used to have a HAM Legion that was somewhat good... now it is a bad ship...

This makes no sense as HAM's got buffed overall.
Lyradex Fane
#6340 - 2012-12-24 13:13:57 UTC
This... Is bullshit.
You make it so I can't fit a plate, 5 425's, an a fricking AFTERBURNER onto a hurricane? But you buff the DRAKE AGAIN?
Seriously frustrating.
So clearly, you just want drake blob fleets.