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CCP Hillmar Interview
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T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
#41 - 2011-10-21 15:48:49 UTC
Alexandra Alt wrote:
Regarding CSM I think there should be a change on how they are elected, right now for instance (hypothetical numbers just to exemplify the issue), 10 people volunteer to belong on CSM with 5 spots open, now, a bunch of people vote and the 5 with more votes get to be in it, I don't think this will 'democratically' have a good sample of different views of ppl in the CSM, and then you get a bunch of people directed towards a specific area of the game.

Right now, the majority of the elected players get to be null/wh/low sec players because most of them do get involved a lot more in forums (for several reasons) or do get more in touch with the community outside the game which in turn translates in those who will feel more compelled to vote.

Many of the new players (or fresh) don't even now what CSM is, hell many don't know how the game works after months of playing, others aren't just forum people, this particular problem could be solved with in game candidates exposure and voting, or better in the long run, a much much better new player experience where not only they are introduced to the game better but to the community too along with their 'duties' and 'obligation' as a figure of speech.

To have a more diverse group of ideas/advocates in the CSM I would probably propose something like a list, instead of choosing to vote on 1 of 20 people, vote on a very well thought out and pre-determined group of people that needs to obey a specific set of organisational rules, like a chairman, then the vice, then 1 representative of several areas of the game, for instance FW, WH, NULL, LOW, HIGH, Industrials, etc etc, and you vote in this group. Even better if the group proposes to release a document expressing each of their views regarding each area of the game to help us make a better choice.

Would it be feasible ? I don't know, there probably are some unfeasible features I'd like, or there is even a better option to have more spread out representation in the CSM but this is what I can think of right now.

Don't turn this discussion only about the CSM btw, there are plenty of whiny threads around that already, and even not the ideal they did a lot more good than harm to the game, anyway, more ideas about the interview and constructive feedback is always welcome imo.


'Play base' style senators, who have their own threads to discuss ideas with fellow like minded players, who genuinely take an interest and are pro active in said play style. Taking the best ideas to the table and seeing what can and what cannot be implemented.
The right people are getting elected for the right roles, covering the whole community. It's been done the way for years in most MMO's,
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#42 - 2011-10-21 15:50:50 UTC
Aidan Brooder wrote:
Disappointed that Incarna will be moth-balled and forgotten. Well, it just means that other people will now start to whine, who hadn't had to, because they were promised what they wanted would be in the winter expansion. But from the moment WoD development was continued "with a much smaller team", it was obvious that this would happen to Incarna.

I think that the WoD/Incarna engine isn't mothballed, but rather that most of the content to the current version of it put on hold.

Interview wrote:

Incarna was the final point of realisation that we were trying to do too much at the same time. We were creating avatar tech for two games, integrating in a single code branch with teams around the world all contributing. It was a very ambitious thing and we didn't do it well enough.


I think that there will be continued work being done on that engine, but it'll be backend/engine tinker to make it work in a multiplayer environment.

It quite simply wouldn't make sense to develop more content until the engine supports it.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Alexandra Alt
Doomheim
#43 - 2011-10-21 15:59:55 UTC
T-Jay Charante wrote:


'Play base' style senators, who have their own threads to discuss ideas with fellow like minded players, who genuinely take an interest and are pro active in said play style. Taking the best ideas to the table and seeing what can and what cannot be implemented.
The right people are getting elected for the right roles, covering the whole community. It's been done the way for years in most MMO's,


That pretty much sums it up, probably the only way to have a balanced set of people in the CSM imo.
T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
#44 - 2011-10-21 16:08:54 UTC
Alexandra Alt wrote:
T-Jay Charante wrote:


'Play base' style senators, who have their own threads to discuss ideas with fellow like minded players, who genuinely take an interest and are pro active in said play style. Taking the best ideas to the table and seeing what can and what cannot be implemented.
The right people are getting elected for the right roles, covering the whole community. It's been done the way for years in most MMO's,


That pretty much sums it up, probably the only way to have a balanced set of people in the CSM imo.


Just taking a look at the Eve Gameplay Centre on the home forum page:
-Missions and Complexes
-Warfare and Tactics
-Science and Industry
-Ships and Modules
-Crime and Punishment
-Market Discussions
-Skill Discussions
-Events and Gatherings
There's 8 potential Senator positions that should cover all aspects of the game. Throw in a high sec, low sec and null sec Senator and I don't think any section of the community could feel under represented.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2011-10-21 16:21:04 UTC
Benilopax wrote:
I'm quite disappointing that Incarna has been totally abandoned rather than just scaled back but I understand their decision.

Also agree about Hilmar not resigning, a new CEO would make things worse not better, Hilmar has learned a lesson lets give him a chance.

I agree fully.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#46 - 2011-10-21 18:03:55 UTC
That Hilmar interview made it much easier for me to understand just what exactly went "wrong". And not more wrong that other companies before and after have done and still will do this error; they made their road map cover too many products. This is a way of saving resources and have broad progress but also results in all development and planning being weighted upon what benefit all products will have of a certain feature instead of just a single product.

Obviously WoD was not dragging developers directly from EVE but being the least developed of the products it was also the one setting the direction for all the others. As such, all EVE related content had to be focused on Incarna as WoD (or DUST) would have no befit at all from a focus tuning assault frigates or engine trails. One can wonder if the reason if the original Walking in Stations engine was completely dumped due to the needs of WoD and if a twist of Incursion mechanics is a element in either WoD or DUST.

Though, of course, WoD has now been pushed with a release date not on this side of 2015 (my prediction) I am certain these changes were a right move by CCP.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

gargars
Willco Inc.
#47 - 2011-10-21 19:21:43 UTC
Good interview - especially on his realizing how null-sec slanted the CSM is at present and that needing to be changed possibly, but what he said about why most of the Community team being fired got me a bit angry...

"A lot of the mistakes we made over the summer were known quite well within our community groups, but they were not getting through to the people making the decisions due to not being co-located with them. "

Email, teleconference, Skype, Instant messaging......

Effective communication is not accomplished only by yelling in the same office, it merely has to be listened to....
Holy One
Privat Party
#48 - 2011-10-21 19:28:58 UTC
Raid'En wrote:
some good points.

and add oficial link to this article soon, we always have to search them, and that's not normal...


CaptainQuint
21/10/11 @ 11:46

At least **** Turpin wore a mask!

:)
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#49 - 2011-10-21 19:44:30 UTC
Benilopax wrote:
I'm quite disappointing that Incarna has been totally abandoned rather than just scaled back but I understand their decision.

Also agree about Hilmar not resigning, a new CEO would make things worse not better, Hilmar has learned a lesson lets give him a chance.


In my view, Hilmar has become EvE's 'Bermaga'.

For those of you who aren't Trek geeks like me, Rick Berman and Brannon Braga were at the helm of most of the major Star Trek series; they didn't really do anything 'wrong', per se, but they made some unpopular decisions and bad choices. As a result, the Trek fandom absolutely crucified them, blaming the franchise's problems on the paring of 'Bermaga' (Berman/Braga).

Benilopax, you're right -- Hilmar messed up. And he learned from it, and showed a fair bit of humility in the process. It's still a bit early, but I'm willing to give him and CCP a second chance.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Dessau
The Scope
#50 - 2011-10-21 19:45:21 UTC
Headerman wrote:
When asked about resigning, Hilmar said...

Quote:
I absolutely considered that but I think that frankly it would have been an easy way out. Being accountable for this type of situation, leading the company into this position, it's also my responsibility to lead us out of it. I've had support from employees in doing that. I've now learned a life lesson from going through this and I hope that will make me a better CEO in the future.

Despite my misgivings about this guy, the above passage (along with much of the interview) was better than expected, IMO.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2011-10-21 19:46:43 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Benilopax wrote:
I'm quite disappointing that Incarna has been totally abandoned rather than just scaled back but I understand their decision.

Also agree about Hilmar not resigning, a new CEO would make things worse not better, Hilmar has learned a lesson lets give him a chance.


In my view, Hilmar has become EvE's 'Bermaga'.

For those of you who aren't Trek geeks like me, Rick Berman and Brannon Braga were at the helm of most of the major Star Trek series; they didn't really do anything 'wrong', per se, but they made some unpopular decisions and bad choices. As a result, the Trek fandom absolutely crucified them, blaming the franchise's problems on the paring of 'Bermaga' (Berman/Braga).

Benilopax, you're right -- Hilmar messed up. And he learned from it, and showed a fair bit of humility in the process. It's still a bit early, but I'm willing to give him and CCP a second chance.



He hasnt PROVEN he has learned from it yet.

He is giving use honeyed words. IM STILL WAITING TO SEE WHAT HE DOES NOT WHAT HE SAYS.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2011-10-21 20:01:19 UTC
Great interview. Rings true to me, and I take the recent return of Hangar view as a sign of good faith - i.e. it's enough of a "doing" to keep me happy until we see what the Winter Expansion brings.

Much happier about the future of EVE now.

Also, as far as I'm concerned, if CCP were to sell fluff in the NeX store at a spread of prices, I'd gladly support them by buying bits of reasonably priced and imaginatively designed cosmetic crap here and there.

Also, I hope they do revisit WiS further down the line and give us at least a shared space, and eventually hopefully some gameplay stuff like Establishments, etc.

But I'm just really happy that they're back focussing on the main thing.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2011-10-21 20:13:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
Jowen Datloran wrote:
One can wonder if the reason if the original Walking in Stations engine was completely dumped due to the needs of WoD .

sounds like a reasonable speculation


imagine a perfect world:

WiS is released with the old (2009 and earlier) engine, say in 2010.
everything goes to plan and WoD is released sometime in 2012/2013 with a new engine (because new games need shiny)
now eve players will demand that you port the new WoD engine back to EVE
(and will take any delay/failure to do so as irrevocable proof that eve is dying because you are treating them to outdated tech)

so you have to scrap the old WiS engine anyways once the WoD engine is done and you probably would have to redo/convert a lot of WiS artwork when you upgrade EVE to the backported new engine (fancy shaders etc).

Rebooting WiS development to use the WoD engine from the start would be a very sensible decision in this hypothetical scenario.
mkint
#54 - 2011-10-21 20:16:44 UTC
nex store - being de-emphasized is good. nex store is not inherently bad, but it's implementation was bad, it's integration tacky, and the art (not necessarily the graphics) suck fat ones. I'm still passionate about returning the quality of the art (again, not just the graphics) to old character creator standards, and not trying to charge us extra for what we had and was taken away.

incarna - I hope there is still 1 team working on it. 1 focused team is better than a couple hundred people doing fuckall. Just use some brains on making it add actual value to EVE, on making it a benefit to players rather than a weight around our necks.

wod - you gotta do what you gotta do. Hopefully the teams still involved are working on the time consuming stuff that takes real expertise, and isn't just a bunch of useless artists making disposable assets.

community team - I still don't get it. Cannibalizing the communication team, and merging them with the customer service department? "customer service" = GMs = already plenty busy. You plan to have better communication by adding to the teams' workloads?

leaked email - Hilmar, I understand how you feel betrayed by it, and short of using the word betrayed in the interview, it's clear that's what you wanted to say. However, you betrayed EVE first. The leaks were obviously a good thing for EVE.

CSM - some of the CCP decisions made in the recent past seem to sacrifice EVE for the sake of the benefit of the CSM members. This hints at some $ changing hands. Whatever's going on with the CSM, there's something not right happening, and it's not entirely to do with the stink the CSM made. The stink they made may seem like a betrayal, but again, CCP betrayed EVE first.

big expansions - CCP, I've said it before, and I really hope you're listening... for the summer expansion, please please PLEASE do your planning on it now instead of 2/3rds of the way through it like you're doing with the Winter one.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#55 - 2011-10-21 20:23:44 UTC
Taken from mkint's posting....

mkint wrote:


leaked email - Hilmar, I understand how you feel betrayed by it, and short of using the word betrayed in the interview, it's clear that's what you wanted to say. However, you betrayed EVE first. The leaks were obviously a good thing for EVE.




I was fine until I got to this part of the interview. Hilmar feels that the leak was aimed at CCP? The pilots I know agree that the leak was aimed squarely at Hilmar!!!!

IMHO he's working hard at getting his head "right", but the man still may need a little more time for "introspection". Perhaps he should spend just a little bit more time w/ John T.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#56 - 2011-10-21 20:31:57 UTC
Quote:
we will certainly do everything we can to avoid those mistakes again.


Lol - Yeah, I'm pretty confident CCP has a lot of experience in making sure to not avoid any mistake...Roll





Other than that, I've always despised politicians claiming to 'take full responsibility' by stepping down, so respect for staying. You messed it up, you fix it.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
mkint
#57 - 2011-10-21 20:37:52 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Quote:
we will certainly do everything we can to avoid those mistakes again.


Lol - Yeah, I'm pretty confident CCP has a lot of experience in making sure to not avoid any mistake...Roll


Don't worry... they'll find whole new mistakes to make.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#58 - 2011-10-21 22:19:47 UTC
gargars wrote:

Email, teleconference, Skype, Instant messaging......


All of which have to coordinate across several timezones, possibly cross a language barrier, and be communicated quickly, clearly and effectively through multiple people. It's like playing a giant game of 'Telephone'; eventually, what you hear isn't what the first person actually said.

By collecting the two departments in the same place, the customer service department doesn't have to wait until it's morning in Iceland to make a phonecall, or catch someone on Skype, or send an IM. It's now just a matter of walking to an office and talking to someone, and the message gets across clearly and without channeling it through a dozen different people.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#59 - 2011-10-21 23:58:37 UTC
I still don't think he gets what was so appalling about the Fearless piece and the words coming from a lead developer.


Playing devil's advocated and Socratic debate is all fair and good (athough reminders to an audience that you are being rhetorical when raising the more extreme points that you don't hold is still in order)

it was absolutely defensible for a lead Developer to advocate widespread possiblitiies to make money on MTs and to talk about the phychology of players connection to the game that make that possible and perhaps even interesting to player.

The developer entirely crossed the line by taking the extreme ( and thus planting a seed of attitude) that players were trapped because of the relations we had built with each other, or imply that not only might we pay more like we do with other hobbies but that we SHOULD pay more (beyond that we might willingly pay more)...

... that didn't need to be said, weakened the argument of why MTS are a good idea, and pretty much said its ok to think of things that way as long as they didn't go too far. He could have brought up the idea on an intellectual level why ardently mentioning parethetically that he never wanted people looking at their customers lhat way....

... which leads me to believe that the people at the company have a somewhat Nihilistic view of humanity which somehow translates into the customer service/communication failures we see so often .

I guess plenty of gamers sort of take a dark view of the world so, maybe thats not so uncommon...

.
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#60 - 2011-10-22 02:10:57 UTC
Another thing I took away was that many of the issues were structural as much as resource based.

more or less ~ stretched to far but can do more with less ~

I've suspected that the bottleneck was at the head of some level of creative development that did not want to delegate core/critical creative decisions yet, had the creative decisions of 3 projects coming through him(her?) .

While what he wrote didn't say as much it sure didn't negate that theory either Part was things like more efficient route of the customer feedback chain to developers.. but I sensed it didn't stop there.

Why bring it up? just in case the idea of a supravisorial bottleneck was only partially considered and there was going to be a tendancy to revert to old habit. They need a note to themselves pinned to their monitor.... trust who you delegate things to to make big decisions or make sure you have the time to roll up your sleeves along side them frequently if you don't

.