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Dual Mac, VS Hulk and Orca mining team.
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Jamie zulen
Thee Institute of Technology and Science
#1 - 2012-12-02 04:36:44 UTC
I am currently mining with 2 accounts in retrievers. i am 18 days from t2 mining barge on one account and 20 days from an orca on the other. would i be better off mining with the 2 mackinaw's or a hulk orca combo?

What are your thoughts, and pros vs cons.

Also how useful is it to have an orca if im not in a big mining corp or do much fleet mining aside from my own 2 accounts?

Thanks in advance. Big smile
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-12-02 05:36:54 UTC
Jamie zulen wrote:
I am currently mining with 2 accounts in retrievers. i am 18 days from t2 mining barge on one account and 20 days from an orca on the other. would i be better off mining with the 2 mackinaw's or a hulk orca combo?

What are your thoughts, and pros vs cons.

Also how useful is it to have an orca if im not in a big mining corp or do much fleet mining aside from my own 2 accounts?

Thanks in advance. Big smile



2 mackinaws.


Hulk (Max skills, no drones, no implant) MLUII x 2 MSMII x 3 + T2 veldspar mining crystals
1547 yield / minute (no boosts)
2169 yield/minute (orca + no implant)
2629 yield/minute (orca + implant)



Mackinaw (Max skills, no drones, no implant) MLUII x 3 MSMII x 2 + T2 veldspar mining crystals
1339 yield / minute (no boosts)
1877 yield/minute (orca + no implant)
2275 yield/minute (orca + implant)
1472 yield/minute (basic boosts) (Boots from fleet member with max skills, no implant, no Orca)



2 accounts
2944 yield - 2 x Mackinaw basic boosts
2678 yield - 2 x Mackinaw
2629 yield - 1 x Hulk + orca + implant:
2169 yield - 1 x Hulk + orca + No implant



3 accounts
5258 yield - 2 x Hulk + orca + implant:
4416 yield - 3 x Mackinaw + basic boosts
4338 yield - 2 x Hulk + orca + no implant
4017 yield - 3 x Mackinaw + no boosts



4 accounts
7887 yield - 3 x Hulk + orca + implant:
6507 yield - 3 x Hulk + orca + No implant
5888 yield - 4 x Mackinaw + basic boosts
5356 yield - 4 x Mackinaw + no boosts
Musashi Date
#3 - 2012-12-02 07:12:51 UTC
I did some Excel spreadsheet on a Mackinaw/Hulk combo, with the Hulk always onsite and the Mackinaw mining/hauling. Basically the income estimate was just above what a Hulk can do solo. The explanation for this is the Hulk draws in ore too fast that by the time the Mackinaw is onsite again, the Hulk has accumulated about 50~65% of the Mackinaw ore hold. This means that the Mackinaw is spending most of its time hauling, and lesser time on extracting ore (which is what really generates income, ore in your cargo).

I think two accounts isn't optimal for a mining operation because of this. The two Hulks plus Orca is where you'll see significant numbers for mining to be lucrative.

(then train 'em extra accounts for PI/missioning/researching --- WIN)
Dave Stark
#4 - 2012-12-02 08:57:27 UTC
at max skills mack/hulk > mack/mack > hulk/orca

however the difference is that small you're arguably going to lose more ore from incomplete cycles and asteroids popping than you are from your conscious choice of setup.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#5 - 2012-12-02 09:59:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Bonus from a max skill Orca with mindlink implant = 1.15/(1-0.025*5*1.5*1.5*1.15) = 1.6997690 so roughly 70% more ore.
Bonus from a booster with mindlink implant = 1.15 so 15% more ore.
Bonus from a max skill booster without mindlink implant = 1.10 so 10% more ore.

Orca + mining ship = 1.6997690
2x Mining ship = 2 * 1.15 = 2.3
Difference = 2.3 - 1.6997690 = 0.6 or 60% more ore

Ergo 2 of any mining ship > Orca + one mining ship.

Next you have to decide if the extra ore is worth the convenience of an Orca (plus longer range, etc.).
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#6 - 2012-12-02 10:42:12 UTC
This question is probably joint favourite along with the 'T2 BPO's should be destroyed' type posts on the S & I board in terms of how often it is asked. Answers to this question usually focus purely on yield and ISK values but they are not the be all & end all in terms of important factors.

Ease of use.
You don't have to worry about hauling to such a great degree.
Mining in systems without stations is made easier which is better in terms of security and sometimes also yield and rock types/amounts are improved.
Dependant on Orca fittings & your Orca pilots skills your Hulk & Orca will have increased EHP,resistances,as well as yield and mining laser range.
Ability to change fittings and mining crystals via the Orca. With the decreased cargo hold on the Hulk this is also a handy thing to have.
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
#7 - 2012-12-02 14:43:29 UTC
Whats the range with an Orca? Something like 25 km I think ?

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-12-02 23:35:00 UTC
Invictra Atreides wrote:
Whats the range with an Orca? Something like 25 km I think ?


Range is nearly meaningless since you can slowboat while shooting the rocks.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-12-02 23:38:18 UTC
Invictra Atreides wrote:
Whats the range with an Orca? Something like 25 km I think ?


With max boosting skills + T2 gang links about 22k. With the implant + T2 ganglinks + max boosting 25km.
Jamie zulen
Thee Institute of Technology and Science
#10 - 2012-12-03 04:23:20 UTC
SmileSmileSmileSmileSmile
Thanks all! so ill stick with dual mack on account of such a small mining op and numbers also ease of use.
SmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

No one did tell me how useful training an orca would be aside form my hair brain hulk orca mining plan lol
is it even worth it?



*"Also how useful is it to have an orca if i'm not in a big mining corp or do much fleet mining aside from my own 2 accounts?"*
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-12-03 05:42:35 UTC
Jamie zulen wrote:
SmileSmileSmileSmileSmile
Thanks all! so ill stick with dual mack on account of such a small mining op and numbers also ease of use.
SmileSmileSmileSmileSmile

No one did tell me how useful training an orca would be aside form my hair brain hulk orca mining plan lol
is it even worth it?



*"Also how useful is it to have an orca if i'm not in a big mining corp or do much fleet mining aside from my own 2 accounts?"*


Orcas are great ships; it's my favorite ship in game to be honest (I'm not a PVP type). They have great M3 cargohold, when fitted for 10sec align/warp the are as fast as standard industrial haulers, they are fantastic for wh life / exploring, are rather cheap for what they offer and are easily trainable to after training to exhumers (like 13 - 16 days).

Also one thing you can also do to help improve your m3/hour mining wise is to train one of your miners to Mining foreman V and set this character in your fleet as the fleet booster. It will increase your yield by 10% as long as both miners are in the same system (in space, not in station).
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#12 - 2012-12-03 16:48:32 UTC
I trained into an ORCA when I had only two accounts. Although I lost yield it was nice to use the orca onsite. Took a while for the Hulk to fill it. It made logistics very easy. But a little boring too.

However two Macks with huge ore holds was not an option at that time.

You can crunch numbers all you want, but actual yield is never as high as theoretical max yield.

Acording to the numbers you need three accounts before the ORCA will give you more yield over another mining ship. And even then you need maxed boosting skills AND the mining foreman implant for two hulks and an ORCA to out mine 3 Macks.

So in reality, as newly getting into the mining field. If you do choose to get into an ORCA, you will be far from max skills on your miner and a long way from max boost on your ORCA for a while yet. So until you got max skills on all your miners and booster, and enough isk to buy a mining foreman implant, you will need 4 accounts before the ORCA will be a profitable investment.

Keep in mind though, that even running two Macks it is worthwhile to train the leadership skills as the booster can sit in one of the Macks. You just don't get the benefit of the gang links on the ORCA. Since you need max boost skills before the ORCA is worthwhile, You will be sticking with Macks. But two Macks with one of the Mack pilots as a booster, even with minimal boosting skills will increase your yield. You can actually stick with the Macks right up until you have mining foreman, mining director, and warfare ganglink specialist skills trained even if not all to 5. You can even buy the mining foreman mindlink before you get the ORCA is it will still add its boost if in a mining ship pilot booster. Then when you do get into the ORCA you will get near max boost right away and not hve to go through a period of low yield while the ORCA pilot trains up boosting skills.
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-12-03 20:58:51 UTC
Jamie zulen wrote:
I am currently mining with 2 accounts in retrievers. i am 18 days from t2 mining barge on one account and 20 days from an orca on the other. would i be better off mining with the 2 mackinaw's or a hulk orca combo?

What are your thoughts, and pros vs cons.

Also how useful is it to have an orca if im not in a big mining corp or do much fleet mining aside from my own 2 accounts?

Thanks in advance. Big smile



Do you always plan on having the station in the same system in which you are mining? If you have to jump through gates, the advantage of the Orca starts to show itself very quickly. Nobody has to stop mining if there is an orca, the orca does all the gate jumps.

If they're in the same system, pick your favorite argument from above my post. ^.^