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Bumping and Aggression

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Alliria Seedspawn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-11-30 14:24:52 UTC
Hello everyone

I was reading another post about a commonly known group that goes around bumping people, and it sparked a question that neither Google nor the forums search resulted in any answers to.

I admit that I don't fully understand aggression mechanics as intricately as some of you do, but I'm wondering why bumping is not considered an act of aggression? I'm looking for some sort of explanation as to the possible reasons that CCP may have had when they decided it wasn't.

My reasoning for why it SHOULD be an act of aggression is that the bumping may be preventing me from warping off or doing something else I'm trying to do. Warp disruptors and ECM will also prevent you from warping off and targeting anything (i.e. prevent you from really doing anything), and they are considered acts of aggression. I also think this aggression should be extended to the victims entire corporation and fleet. This would give those being affected by the miner bumping crew recourse to defend themselves, and would give freighters a reason to hire an escort. I believe those are the two biggest bumping culprits that people can't really do anything about at the moment. Making bumping an act of aggression would give these people the ability to fight back and not become an automatic victim.

My thought is that there would need to be a threshold on the force involved in the bump so that accidental low speed collisions aren't causing any loss in security status or people to lose ships (think Jita or mining ops). I don't consider this to be bumping though, and I think everyone understands what people mean when referring to bumping.

Your thoughts?
Rengerel en Distel
#2 - 2012-11-30 14:26:40 UTC
Wow, haven't seen this thread before ... oh wait, there it is, still on the first page ...

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-11-30 14:40:07 UTC
Alliria Seedspawn wrote:
Hello everyone

I was reading another post about a commonly known group that goes around bumping people, and it sparked a question that neither Google nor the forums search resulted in any answers to.

I admit that I don't fully understand aggression mechanics as intricately as some of you do, but I'm wondering why bumping is not considered an act of aggression? I'm looking for some sort of explanation as to the possible reasons that CCP may have had when they decided it wasn't.

My reasoning for why it SHOULD be an act of aggression is that the bumping may be preventing me from warping off or doing something else I'm trying to do. Warp disruptors and ECM will also prevent you from warping off and targeting anything (i.e. prevent you from really doing anything), and they are considered acts of aggression. I also think this aggression should be extended to the victims entire corporation and fleet. This would give those being affected by the miner bumping crew recourse to defend themselves, and would give freighters a reason to hire an escort. I believe those are the two biggest bumping culprits that people can't really do anything about at the moment. Making bumping an act of aggression would give these people the ability to fight back and not become an automatic victim.

My thought is that there would need to be a threshold on the force involved in the bump so that accidental low speed collisions aren't causing any loss in security status or people to lose ships (think Jita or mining ops). I don't consider this to be bumping though, and I think everyone understands what people mean when referring to bumping.

Your thoughts?



As has been previously mentioned... lets say we act on your foolish plan. Bumping becomes agression.

So you leave statin in you little retriever. Ill be sitting there in my battleship. O dear you accidentily bump me on the undock, as you come out of the session change.

30 second later

Boom

You lose your retriever.
Alliria Seedspawn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-11-30 14:42:39 UTC
@ Rengerel:

I did a forum search on "Bumping Aggression" and did not find anything relating to this. I see the bumping thread you speak of now.

@Kraiklyn:

Read the last paragraph of my original post.

"My thought is that there would need to be a threshold on the force involved in the bump so that accidental low speed collisions aren't causing any loss in security status or people to lose ships (think Jita or mining ops). I don't consider this to be bumping though, and I think everyone understands what people mean when referring to bumping."
Mehashi 'Kho
New Eden Motion Pictures
#5 - 2012-11-30 14:43:47 UTC
Warp from most used gate to station at 0, don't dock. Wait for other people to warp to station, as they land some of them will bump into you with post-warp velocity. Scram and kill them as they wont be able to dock with aggression.

Can't see that going wrong at all.
kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-11-30 14:47:38 UTC
Alliria Seedspawn wrote:
@ Rengerel:

I did a forum search on "Bumping Aggression" and did not find anything relating to this. I see the bumping thread you speak of now.

@Kraiklyn:

Read the last paragraph of my original post.

"My thought is that there would need to be a threshold on the force involved in the bump so that accidental low speed collisions aren't causing any loss in security status or people to lose ships (think Jita or mining ops). I don't consider this to be bumping though, and I think everyone understands what people mean when referring to bumping."




So basically you thought for 5 seconds realized how incredibly impossible your idea is and post anyway?
I
Aducat Ragnarson
Blootered Bastards
#7 - 2012-11-30 15:19:39 UTC

To quote the immortal CCP Falcons wise words of wisdom:

"There is a thread here regarding bumping.

Do not re-open this topic.

"-CCP Falcon
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#8 - 2012-11-30 19:33:42 UTC
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
Alliria Seedspawn wrote:
Hello everyone

I was reading another post about a commonly known group that goes around bumping people, and it sparked a question that neither Google nor the forums search resulted in any answers to.

I admit that I don't fully understand aggression mechanics as intricately as some of you do, but I'm wondering why bumping is not considered an act of aggression? I'm looking for some sort of explanation as to the possible reasons that CCP may have had when they decided it wasn't.

My reasoning for why it SHOULD be an act of aggression is that the bumping may be preventing me from warping off or doing something else I'm trying to do. Warp disruptors and ECM will also prevent you from warping off and targeting anything (i.e. prevent you from really doing anything), and they are considered acts of aggression. I also think this aggression should be extended to the victims entire corporation and fleet. This would give those being affected by the miner bumping crew recourse to defend themselves, and would give freighters a reason to hire an escort. I believe those are the two biggest bumping culprits that people can't really do anything about at the moment. Making bumping an act of aggression would give these people the ability to fight back and not become an automatic victim.

My thought is that there would need to be a threshold on the force involved in the bump so that accidental low speed collisions aren't causing any loss in security status or people to lose ships (think Jita or mining ops). I don't consider this to be bumping though, and I think everyone understands what people mean when referring to bumping.

Your thoughts?



As has been previously mentioned... lets say we act on your foolish plan. Bumping becomes agression.

So you leave statin in you little retriever. Ill be sitting there in my battleship. O dear you accidentily bump me on the undock, as you come out of the session change.

30 second later

Boom

You lose your retriever.




With this thought, I now kinda want bumping to casue aggression. The market hubs will be awesome.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#9 - 2012-11-30 21:03:27 UTC
Alliria Seedspawn wrote:
Making bumping an act of aggression would give these people the ability to fight back and not become an automatic victim.

I would like to point out that this is the SAME EXACT argument used by miners to make canflipping create aggression rights (way back in the day).

What ended up happening was high-sec PvPers turned this into a new way to bait people into attacking them... or trick people so they could be attacked... and very few miners actually used the "new" canflipping mechanics to fight back.

How did you Veterans start?
Mystical Might
Eclipse Pulsar
Fraternity.
#10 - 2012-12-01 03:04:23 UTC
> Bumping gives you aggro to the duder you're bumping
> He is in, say, a freighter.
> He is now able to aggro you.
> Nothing changes.

Same goes for mining barges, haulers, and the like. I doubt anything that you get aggression to will be capable of killing you anyway, so it's pointless to argue for it.

also, 03:05 in the morning. I may not make sense.
BASICALLY, The targets for bumps are usually defenseless ships. What's the point of allowing them to aggro you?
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#11 - 2012-12-01 05:35:57 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2236432#post2236432

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#12 - 2012-12-01 08:38:46 UTC
Bump threshold: 5 bumps within a set period of time makes you KOS to targets corp.

New condition: Any aggression towards a corp member makes that person KOS to your corp.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Aducat Ragnarson
Blootered Bastards
#13 - 2012-12-01 12:51:21 UTC
To quote me again, quoting CCP Falcon:

Aducat Ragnarson wrote:

To quote the immortal CCP Falcons wise words of wisdom:

"There is a thread here regarding bumping.

Do not re-open this topic.

"-CCP Falcon




TL;DR
Thou shalt post stuff regarding any matter of bumping here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=176498
Hast Semah
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-12-01 16:46:35 UTC
But how will the game determine who did the bumping? Motion is relative. You could be station keeping with a belt in your mining barge and be at "0 m/s", but that belt is moving relative to something. So the ship that bumps you could argue you bumped him. This applies to real physics anyway.
Darvaleth Sigma
Imperial Security Hegemony
#15 - 2012-12-01 20:49:31 UTC
Bumping agression would lead to a complete Jita meltdown. Have you seen how many ships there are there?

Give a man a match and you warm him for a day.

Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life!
Silas Shaw
Coffee Hub
#16 - 2012-12-02 02:00:16 UTC
Alliria Seedspawn wrote:
@Kraiklyn:

Read the last paragraph of my original post.

"My thought is that there would need to be a threshold on the force involved in the bump so that accidental low speed collisions aren't causing any loss in security status or people to lose ships (think Jita or mining ops). I don't consider this to be bumping though, and I think everyone understands what people mean when referring to bumping."



you realize that you come out of the undock with greater than 100% of your normal maximum velocity, right?
Opera Noir
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-12-02 11:14:25 UTC
I support this plan. Just imagine all the juicy kills waiting for those noble ambushers of high sec space. It would lead to a wondrous age of piracy and shiny loots.
psycho freak
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-12-02 16:38:39 UTC
Op this isnt some fuzzy wuzzy safe solo game ffs whineing about bumping ppl like make me sick want everything changed to suite you

i hope u get bumped all week and then empire ganked

my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k

nop cant find it
Grombutz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-12-02 19:40:15 UTC
What's the deal with it anyway? Use new Bounty mechanics to make those bumpers worthwhile targets - problem solved?

Anyway, if you got bumped by James and his Crew, the only word I have for ya is: HAHA.

I could expand it by random comments about your mental abilities, but that might get me banned so...
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#20 - 2012-12-03 02:55:49 UTC
We don't have aggression anymore remember, just suspect flags.
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