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Should a tackled ship be able to self destruct?
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The Bear08
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-10-20 18:13:47 UTC  |  Edited by: The Bear08
Good evening,

I am asking this question having just tackled a White Noise Obelisk on a lowsec gate. It had a Vaga and a Tengu escorting it and there were 4 of us so we took the gateguns and engaged the Vaga whilst pointing the freighter. Once the Vaga was down we turned our efforts to the Obelisk since the Tengu was doing pitiful DPS. I didn't actually see the self destruct message pop up but the pilot must have initiated it almost as soon as he was tackled him. Needless to say, he self destructed whilst in low structure X

I feel that if a ship is tackled, it should not be able to initiate the self destruct procedure. I am aware that there would have to be a slight change in mechanics in order to stop griefer's holding down ships for indefinite periods of time.As it is now, if the pilot wishes to escape then they can eject and warp.
Perhaps having a self destruct mechanism on capsule's only would be a possible solution.

What do you think?
SC0T1SH WARRIOR
Zero For 0wned
#2 - 2011-10-20 18:33:54 UTC  |  Edited by: SC0T1SH WARRIOR
Didn't get the kill?
UMad?

The thing is, its all in prep, you need to take into consideration that it is a possibility and a perfectly viable one at that.

It is his ship, if he wants to SD himself then there should be no reason why you holding him there and not killing him fast enough should stop that.
Next time you go to tackle something like that, bring more DPS to blow it before the timer, or when its low enough, and you are confident you have everywhere covered (you took out his escort) let him warp off, this cancels the timer and you can hope you will be faster than him and you know where he is warping to, and if you catch him again, you should have done enough damage for the timer to mean nothing if he starts it again.

look at all Sci-fi movies, when **** hits the fan, self destruct the ship and run to the escape pod.

Dont mind me,  just touching your stuff.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2011-10-20 18:34:18 UTC
The entire point of self-destructing during battle is to deny the attacker loot and a killmail. Just take solace in the fact that you have relieved White Noise of an Obelisk filled with god-knows-what.

How did you Veterans start?
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#4 - 2011-10-20 18:52:51 UTC
I would be ok with it if they didn't get an insurance payout when self destructing, but yeah as it is now the mechanic is a little annoying Pirate

nom nom
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-10-20 22:54:39 UTC
1. Known fact, ship self destruct is 2 minutes

2. Known fact, "fly what you can afford" -- slighty off topic but it applies to the idea "you have knowledge of the situation at hand, therefore you are responsible for the resulting actions"

3. According to 1, you have 2 minutes to destroy a ship. According to 2, you have knowledge of 1 and are responsible to counter 1. That means, you either plan to bring WTFBBQFACEPUNCH!!!11!!! DPS or you loose the fight.

No one is responcible or obligated to provide you killmails. You failed to target the freighter by focusing on the Vagabond and the freighter pilot did the first thing he deemed necessary, that is to prevent the loot from falling into enemy hands. And **** you off in the process, cause killmails are so highly prized but tears are worth more. If you want the freighter killmail, then you should aim for the freighter but since you failed and shot the Vagabond then you are at fault for making a bad decision. Don't forget that in EVE, there are consequences to your actions and you choose poorly.
Jude Lloyd
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2011-10-20 23:06:47 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
1. Known fact, ship self destruct is 2 minutes

2. Known fact, "fly what you can afford" -- slighty off topic but it applies to the idea "you have knowledge of the situation at hand, therefore you are responsible for the resulting actions"

3. According to 1, you have 2 minutes to destroy a ship. According to 2, you have knowledge of 1 and are responsible to counter 1. That means, you either plan to bring WTFBBQFACEPUNCH!!!11!!! DPS or you loose the fight.

No one is responcible or obligated to provide you killmails. You failed to target the freighter by focusing on the Vagabond and the freighter pilot did the first thing he deemed necessary, that is to prevent the loot from falling into enemy hands. And **** you off in the process, cause killmails are so highly prized but tears are worth more. If you want the freighter killmail, then you should aim for the freighter but since you failed and shot the Vagabond then you are at fault for making a bad decision. Don't forget that in EVE, there are consequences to your actions and you choose poorly.


lose*

I'm back!
Dynast
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#7 - 2011-10-20 23:24:53 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
No one is responcible or obligated to provide you killmails. You failed to target the freighter by focusing on the Vagabond and the freighter pilot did the first thing he deemed necessary, that is to prevent the loot from falling into enemy hands. And **** you off in the process, cause killmails are so highly prized but tears are worth more. If you want the freighter killmail, then you should aim for the freighter but since you failed and shot the Vagabond then you are at fault for making a bad decision. Don't forget that in EVE, there are consequences to your actions and you choose poorly.

This, pretty much. If you want mechanics added to grant you your "fair" killmail, perhaps you'd like some mechanics added as well that only allow "fair" fights? That'd be awfully silly, though.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#8 - 2011-10-21 00:15:52 UTC
With the coming end of the logoffski, I think we'll see supercapitals being self-destructed to deny killmails when things hit the fan. I recently had a proposal thread in the Assembly Hall to have self-destructs generate killmails for this very reason. Killmails are an integral part of how people gauge success in Eve. CCP has now confirmed my stance:

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2922

Quote:
Killmails are great. They serve as reminders of good fights (or dubious mistakes). They let you measure losses inflicted on your enemy in cold hard ISK. They also demonstrate some interesting choices in ship fitting, or cargo-movement attempts. If you're so inclined, they provide a way to track your kill/death ratio, and measure it against your peers...


In other words, killmails as they exist today are working as intended. Now they plan on adding lost implants to the killmail system. It's high time self-destructions get killmails as well, to create a clearer picture for all the reasons listed by CCP Masterplan.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#9 - 2011-10-21 00:38:11 UTC
Griefing would be taken to a whole new level if you could point someone and hold them for as long as you'd like if they couldn't self destruct.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#10 - 2011-10-21 01:28:29 UTC
Super Chair wrote:
Griefing would be taken to a whole new level if you could point someone and hold them for as long as you'd like if they couldn't self destruct.

Get aggression, point, go afk. Post logs later.

Yeah, bad idea.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#11 - 2011-10-21 01:38:22 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Super Chair wrote:
Griefing would be taken to a whole new level if you could point someone and hold them for as long as you'd like if they couldn't self destruct.

Get aggression, point, go afk. Post logs later.

Yeah, bad idea.


lol, if someone were to point me and go AFK, I'll get together everyone I know to gank the sucker. Either that or fly out of range of the point. So, yeah, point me and AFK, I promise I won't self destruct :p
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#12 - 2011-10-21 02:38:43 UTC
mxzf wrote:
lol, if someone were to point me and go AFK, I'll get together everyone I know to gank the sucker. Either that or fly out of range of the point. So, yeah, point me and AFK, I promise I won't self destruct :p

If you're able to put together a group to gank them, you probably aren't going to be suckered into getting aggression in the first place.

Flying out of range wouldn't be an option because this would be done using a ship that could pace you, and would probably put webs on you.

It's not something you could do where they could hit a gate or station, so you're largely limited to belts and deadspace.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-10-21 04:44:49 UTC
Yes but not a ship under aggression timer. I wish.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#14 - 2011-10-21 05:13:15 UTC
Without self destruct you could grief people by holding pod tackled for ever.
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#15 - 2011-10-21 09:09:47 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Without self destruct you could grief people by holding pod tackled for ever.


I think I once held Ankh's pod tackled well over an hour. I quess she didnt know that self-destruct existed. I was, of course, griefing her on purpose if you took her word for it...
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-10-21 10:39:05 UTC
The Bear08 wrote:
What do you think?

grow some balls and engage real targets?

sorry but you asked Oops

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Freighter Kate
Order of the Void Logistics
#17 - 2011-10-21 16:10:05 UTC
Why not? If you're in your car and surrounded by cops, should you not be allowed to shoot back? If you had a bomb, should you not be allowed to detonate it?

Make a reasonable argument and we'll talk. Just stamping your foot because you lost out on a killmail is just embarassing (for you).
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2011-10-21 18:39:21 UTC
you saved on ammo and still got the loot

killmails are worthless.
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2011-10-21 19:00:17 UTC
"Should a tackled ship be able to self destruct?" - Yes, it's a final act of defiance.
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#20 - 2011-10-21 19:15:41 UTC
Now what would be nice is if self destruct did damage to other ships...like a smart-bomb...but BIGGER...SO MUCH BIGGER!
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