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Future of armour incursion fleets

Author
Zwo Zateki
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-12-01 20:19:32 UTC
I can remember time before the Inferno when the armour fleets managed to run the whole constellation and close the mom themselves. Now it is nothing more than vanguards. What happened ffs? Is there any future for armour fleets?

http://cvmkr.com/R4JG

Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#2 - 2012-12-02 02:27:33 UTC
People have it stuck in their head that armour is rubbish and shield is over powered. So even though you absolutely can do pretty much anything with an armour fleet, no one will because "LOL YOU NOOB GET A SHIELD TANK LOLOLOL"
Athena Themis
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-12-02 02:51:41 UTC
Shields are just faster. Period.
Travis117
Valkyrie Consortium
No Visual.
#4 - 2012-12-02 09:21:20 UTC
Shield more dps
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#5 - 2012-12-02 16:22:52 UTC
Come to the Shield side, we have cookies.
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
The Whale Hunters Association
#6 - 2012-12-02 17:00:30 UTC
dps is the same armor or shield.

just more lol missioners shield tank 4tw people around
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-12-02 18:33:10 UTC
I just started running some armor incursions. Tons of fun. So that's +1 armor pilot.
decaneos
Casalt Corp
CAStabouts
#8 - 2012-12-03 13:07:47 UTC
Passive shield cap can't be cap drained
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
#9 - 2012-12-03 16:26:43 UTC
To fit a decent tank, you need at least 4 slots. To contribute decent DPS, you need at least 3 damage mods. So to armour tank you need at least 7 low slots, whereas for shield tanking you need 3 lows and 4 mids. Therefore a much wider range of ships can shield tank, even those that are traditionally armour tankers. If you run an armour tanking fleet then you are either restricting members to just a few ship types, or going in with much reduced DPS, as people drop damage mods to fit tank.
Spectre Wraith
Darwin Inc.
#10 - 2012-12-03 20:46:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Spectre Wraith
Who are "the" armor tank fleets to hook up with now? I've never done incursions before and kind of want to just check them out a little. Someone throw me a mail ingame, I'm up for bringing a guardian or picking up a navy BS. Whatevs.

Edit - I'm just as equally interested in a shield fleet too, so I may just check out the other groups that run them.
Edit 2 - I hate pve, but at least Incursions make it interesting.

Dear lord, please help me deal with the insufferable....

Mexan Caderu
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-12-04 19:23:33 UTC
Aptenodytes wrote:
If you run an armour tanking fleet then you are either restricting members to just a few ship types, or going in with much reduced DPS, as people drop damage mods to fit tank.

Yes and no, armor ships can use tracking/utility midslots that shield ships cannot. I'd expect to have armor roughly equal to shields dmg wise

What happened to armor however was shield having more FC's and implementing a 'official' FC training plan (least CID/TVP did). As old armor FC's burned out/moved on, most ppl were left with no FC/armor fleets up on one side, and several FC's drafting people for shield fleets on the other side...

And that was what happened to armor, basically.
Ludus Lucrius
WildCards 22nd
#12 - 2012-12-19 13:49:49 UTC
Shield are more blessed by the gods of CCP incursions wise, with maxed OGB they can make effective tank with 1-2 rigs and 1 mid while armor with maxed OGB needs at least 3 lows and 1 rig.

That being said I still prefer armor fleets :)


"Velle Est Posse"

Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-12-20 01:14:28 UTC
Zwo Zateki wrote:
I can remember time before the Inferno when the armour fleets managed to run the whole constellation and close the mom themselves. Now it is nothing more than vanguards. What happened ffs? Is there any future for armour fleets?


tht was back in the days of the legion blitz fleets. only one community came up with a plan to contest them and succeeded. Inferno ended the blitz fleets. After all the nerfing to incusions and rebalancing many pilots gave up on them and left for other things within the game, rage quite for a few months, or got caught up in real life.

Since then many pilots fell into the comfort zone of VGs not wanting to go beyond that cause the pilots do not trust in one another and that the TDF council has pissed on the community when they were called on when ISN was created within the community. more drama. but we will nto go finger pointiing at the true source within TVP.

Armor can answer the call that many are voicing here. if they only get their heads out of their collective.....you get the idea. But with everything going on the drama involved many armor pilots gave up and went to other parts of the game after all was said and done.

Oh on another note....Just the other day I saw 2 armor fleets running about doing Assaults. Fun watching TDF try and contest us even when the Born Ara Mob was a training fleet. Thank you TDF for your help in training the new assault FC in how to win a contest. The senior FC was very informative and even helped us regular fleet folks into how to win a contest. WOOHOOOO!!!!

Knowledge is power...and knowing is half the battle
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2012-12-20 01:52:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Aptenodytes wrote:
To fit a decent tank, you need at least 4 slots. To contribute decent DPS, you need at least 3 damage mods. So to armour tank you need at least 7 low slots, whereas for shield tanking you need 3 lows and 4 mids. Therefore a much wider range of ships can shield tank, even those that are traditionally armour tankers. If you run an armour tanking fleet then you are either restricting members to just a few ship types, or going in with much reduced DPS, as people drop damage mods to fit tank.


^this reason.

shields are great for PVE because they regenerate, imo

trust your logistics, omit local reps.

hard mode: shield resist fittings on an armor-intended ship, again no local reps. superpwn. the nightmare is good this way. the machariel is PWNZXOR in this config.

http://i.imgur.com/f8Q7d.jpg <-Large Shield Transporter II on perfect logi without siege links
Daria Meridian Carlile
Necromatic Inc.
#15 - 2012-12-20 04:07:31 UTC
Lilan Kahn wrote:
dps is the same armor or shield.

just more lol missioners shield tank 4tw people around


So you can fit 3 damage mods and a few tracking ones on your armor tanker? impressive.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-12-20 06:44:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Daria Meridian Carlile wrote:
So you can fit 3 damage mods and a few tracking ones on your armor tanker? impressive.

3 damage mods aren't problem, and you don't fit tracking mods into lows on armor ships, but into mids.

People mostly fly shields probably because shield reps are more responsive and because most of good incursioning ships perform much better with shield setup, having both freedom to go with lows and still have plenty of mids for utility stuff while having required tank.

Even damn Legion isn't really worse with shield setup than it is with armour, provided you invest in some bling. Unless it's some sort of mobile doctrine ofc.
Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-12-20 07:29:23 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Daria Meridian Carlile wrote:
So you can fit 3 damage mods and a few tracking ones on your armor tanker? impressive.

3 damage mods aren't problem, and you don't fit tracking mods into lows on armor ships, but into mids.

People mostly fly shields probably because shield reps are more responsive and because most of good incursioning ships perform much better with shield setup, having both freedom to go with lows and still have plenty of mids for utility stuff while having required tank.

Even damn Legion isn't really worse with shield setup than it is with armour, provided you invest in some bling. Unless it's some sort of mobile doctrine ofc.


BarroghHabalu...your wrong. People fly the ships they are trained for. there is no ABsolute set up for any one ship. It is how you set it up.

Yes its true armor tank style ships set up for shield tanking is kinda fragile as is shield tanked ships. I would love to see ships that are truely intended for shield tanking get a hit in the armor depeartment and the same with armor ships get a hit in shield department. Make the ship truely what it's intended for.

but then again it all comes down to skill.

oh...one otherthing.....Armor trusting in their DPS
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#18 - 2012-12-20 07:35:23 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Every site mechanics change helped shield fleets over armour fleets. Armour FCs were never consulted to my knowledge by CCP. I ask for the name of 1 armour FC consulted.

In Vanguards even though the wall of OTAs was finally broken with the removal of the Maras and the shortening of the distance of repping towers this ended up helping shields more.

In assaults the NCS's new warp in points overwelmingly made shield fleets stronger. All the additional cruiser & BS NPC eHP in OCF's also gave them an advantage. Jeez allowing BC's in the cruisers side of NCN's helped them more.

In HQ's nothing much changed.

If CCP had added more frigate NPCs it would have evened things out amongst the 2 fleet doctorines.

Majority of the Armor FC's ended up burning out ... I am surprised they outlived BTL & the Wall of OTA much to thier credit & thank them for the luv of the community though that they were able to put inAttention

EDIT: I won't even go into how the lenghting of sites' completion times ended up crushing lo & null SEC Incursions
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Rukia Taika
Allied Operations
Mechanicus Macabre Immortale
#19 - 2012-12-20 08:25:45 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Every site mechanics change helped shield fleets over armour fleets. Armour FCs were never consulted to my knowledge by CCP. I ask for the name of 1 armour FC consulted.

In Vanguards even though the wall of OTAs was finally broken with the removal of the Maras and the shortening of the distance of repping towers this ended up helping shields more.

In assaults the NCS's new warp in points overwelmingly made shield fleets stronger. All the additional cruiser & BS NPC eHP in OCF's also gave them an advantage. Jeez allowing BC's in the cruisers side of NCN's helped them more.

In HQ's nothing much changed.

If CCP had added more frigate NPCs it would have evened things out amongst the 2 fleet doctorines.

Majority of the Armor FC's ended up burning out ... I am surprised they outlived BTL & the Wall of OTA much to thier credit & thank them for the luv of the community though that they were able to put inAttention

EDIT: I won't even go into how the lenghting of sites' completion times ended up crushing lo & null SEC Incursions


I try not to say much on these silly forum things. but dude. seriously several of us know why Armour is having such a hard problem. Its called adapting. Seriously i think you need your balls reattached.

you are seriously wrong thinking Armor cannot run the sites just as affectively as shield but our fitting styles will be slightly diffrent set up but we can do it and i will be proving it this weekend. I beleive we will be testing it first ont the test server then going live with it.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-12-20 11:44:47 UTC
Aptenodytes wrote:
To fit a decent tank, you need at least 4 slots. To contribute decent DPS, you need at least 3 damage mods. So to armour tank you need at least 7 low slots, whereas for shield tanking you need 3 lows and 4 mids. Therefore a much wider range of ships can shield tank, even those that are traditionally armour tankers. If you run an armour tanking fleet then you are either restricting members to just a few ship types, or going in with much reduced DPS, as people drop damage mods to fit tank.


My Geddon would like to have a word with you.
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