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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Remove the Titan bridge

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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2012-12-01 17:20:44 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Give titan bridges mass limits like wormholes. This limits immeadiate power projection, and thus should be acceptable and still make titans viable.



Much better idea than simply removing it.



Not really, because that just means that Alliance X with 50 titans can still bridge a million ships onto you, while Alliance Y with only one titan can only bridge 10 ships at a time. Decided advantage to mega-alliance. Still.

At least if a small alliance manages finally to get 50 people online and in a fleet, please don't punish them on top of that by limiting their options because they can only afford the one titan. You'd be playing into the hands of the mega-alliance that has at least 200 ppl in fleet and 10 titans online at any one time. Might as well play Goonswarm Online. Or maybe that was the point....


Yes, and I'm sure Poland was on the WWII forums complaining about being outnumbered by a superior force instead of fighting and finding allies of their own as well...

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jaangel
BLAMBER
#102 - 2012-12-01 17:52:43 UTC
I've had a long discussion about this today.

We dont want titan bridges to be removed as there fun!

On the other hand they make force projection a big issue.

There are a number of ways to counter force projection. Limit the number of ships per jump increase the fuel costs and reduce the range are all ideas that will help the situation.

We dont want to remove hot dropping we just need to stop it being a viable blob technique
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#103 - 2012-12-01 18:58:11 UTC
Jherik wrote:
2 changes i would like to see to titans would be
1) make bridging only usuable from outside a pos shield.



I'd endorse this.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#104 - 2012-12-01 19:00:57 UTC
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Drekarg wrote:
Jherik wrote:
2 changes i would like to see to titans would be

1) make bridging only usuable from outside a pos shield.

and/or

2) make the titan automatically jump behind the bridge when it closes.


you wanna use your bling... risk your bling

This would result in tears, bring it on.

Well the titan would sit 1m outside the pos shields with a handy stabber bumping alt to help bump it back in...

As for #2: Jump a whole 250 man fleet to protect the titan, with a few Augorors to help cap up the Titan so It can jump everyone back as soon as your 250 man fleet takes care of the ten man roaming gang.

It took me all of thirty seconds to think up something that could counter the stupid ideas that this NON PROBLEM is trying to solve.



You'd have to jump cap battery carriers in if you wanted it to be fast, but that's not really a problem.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#105 - 2012-12-01 19:06:23 UTC  |  Edited by: SmilingVagrant
We once had an idea where a titan's jump bridge module would deploy a bubble and simply drag itself and everything in the bubble to a new location.

A lot of people shot it down because someone realized it would be hilarious to park a cloaked titan on some fleets midpoint gate and drag a quarter of their fleet into a full one of ours with a press of a button.

Once again I'm going to state: Titan bridges will not stop force projection. It took us more than an hour to get all of our fleets into 6VDT 2 years ago because we didn't have many titans at the time and our JB network was still down. Force will still be projected, it will be just less fun to project that force.

But the two big coalitions both LOVE the idea of smashing someone in a huge raid, so if you tell us there's a hellcamp 80 jumps away... we'll still go.

EDIT: Sidenote

Delve was a long way away for us. You know how we dealt with this? Carrier convoys. So what are we going to do? Keep nerfing items to stop people from massing until ships can only live in the system they were built in?
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#106 - 2012-12-01 19:24:50 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
... Force will still be projected, it will be just less fun to project that force.
...




Yes.

Making force projection more tedious, more difficult or more strategically engaging is all that most people are asking for.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#107 - 2012-12-01 19:27:28 UTC
Sheynan wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
... Force will still be projected, it will be just less fun to project that force.
...




Yes.

Making force projection more tedious, more difficult or more strategically engaging is all that most people are asking for.


If you think that just grabbing a lump of people and saying "Go here" is more strategically engaging than moving assets around to assist in that movement... well I don't know what to say except maybe you don't know what strategically engaging means.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#108 - 2012-12-01 19:38:48 UTC
I agree with DNS Black's suggestions. As for what role Titans would play is a seperate issue that CCP can sort out later.

yk
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#109 - 2012-12-01 19:54:02 UTC
From the perspective a single pilot, "go there" would be more strategically engaging, if only slightly.

But what I actually meant was for example a cyno delay. After opening a cyno, a certain amount of time has to pass before the bridge can be opened. This would definitely make cynos "strategically engaging".

In a hotdrop-gank situation it would mean that you need to have a stronger forward party that is able to hold the targets down and keep the cyno ship alive until the reinforcements can jump.
In a large-scale battle, cynoing directly into the face of other people would be tricky. But you could still use either multiple cynos or cynos on a capital ship or just cyno in at an offgrid spot while their main fleet is bubbled somewhere else.
The question of how to achieve a stable cyno connection directly into the battle while potentially deterring the enemy's connection would add a new dimension to fleet fights. You'd have to strategize more about "how do we get all of our guys here" than in the "open cyno, receive extra ships".
Also both cases the you would also benefit from actually risking more than the odd T1-cyno frig or bait Maller.


But that is just an example, there are probably a myriad ways to improve cynos to be "more tedious, more difficult or more strategically engaging" over the current "let's put a midpoint POS there, park a titan and have a few scrubs with cynos on grid"
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#110 - 2012-12-01 20:01:43 UTC
Jherik wrote:
1) make bridging only usuable from outside a pos shield.

This is just about the only reasonable and decent suggestion in this thread.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2012-12-01 20:22:23 UTC
it may lead to more dead titans, which is a good thing

it will, however not fix any of the real problems nullsec currently has
Skorpynekomimi
#112 - 2012-12-01 21:01:37 UTC
TBH, the problem is more that alliances in Null CAN throw hundreds of subcaps at a fleet without concern.

Economic PVP
fukier
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2012-12-01 21:08:34 UTC  |  Edited by: fukier
Turelus wrote:
What would a Titan do at this point? other than be a giant dreadnought?


i would turn titans into Motherships...

make them have an immense SMA that can carry a boat load of carriers/dreads...

then i would make a new regular sized capital ship that can cyno bridge but it has to jump with all this ships...

so instead of right clicking on the ship to jump, the ship itsself jumps and any sub cap ship within 75km gets pulled with it...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#114 - 2012-12-02 01:43:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Xen Solarus
Agree with most of the points raised by the OP. In particular, the easy-mode moon goo farming, which i personally think is the bigger problem. Null is all safe now and full of blues, happy to sit on masses of wealth that accumulates with little effort. Something definately needs to be changed here to shake this up, such as adding moon depletion and random regeneration at different locations. Anything really, that gets them all fighting. Cool I even like the idea of seperating the moon mining from POS structures, involving ships to mine them would open up new tactics and encourage more combat.

Without a continious stream of easy-isk from moon goo, eventually losing loads of titans and fleets in combat should start to make a dent in their INSANE wallets.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2012-12-02 01:54:45 UTC
moon depletion and random regenerations are even worse ideas than removing titan bridges. and it is quite difficult to come up with ideas that are that stupid.

active moongoo generation however, that is a fantastic idea
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#116 - 2012-12-02 02:04:29 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
moon depletion and random regenerations are even worse ideas than removing titan bridges. and it is quite difficult to come up with ideas that are that stupid.


Can't see you making any suggestions. You one of the "lets keep it the same" crowd?

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#117 - 2012-12-02 02:12:00 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Give titan bridges mass limits like wormholes. This limits immeadiate power projection, and thus should be acceptable and still make titans viable.


Except this would make armor fleets even more **** than they are now.

Edit:

Vincent Athena wrote:
Would limiting Titans really prevent instant power projection? Or just make it a little bit less instant?

Three things need to be moved to project power: The ships, the pilots for those ships, and the players controlling the pilots. Now lets say we limited rapid movement of ships, but you still wanted to quickly project power. How would you do it? You would pre-position ships about the area along with jump clones. When the time came to project power everyone clone jumps. Or if needed, suicide pod jump. Sure it would be less power and sure the ships would not be in quite the right place when you needed them, but most of the travel would already be done when the time came to move your forces.

So lets eliminate jump clones. Now what do you do? Pre-position alts along with the ships. Now to project power you need to log into the correct alt. There will be a drop in average skill level as you need to skill up alts, but the net effect will not be that much different.

So to really prevent rapid power projection we need to limit Titans, remove jump clones, have your med clone always be at the nearest friendly station with a med bay, and limit every player to one pilot.


So... they would be jump cloning to the system they would have been bridging out of anyway?
Someone doesn't to much 0.0 warfare...

Simetraz wrote:
The real question is if jump bridges and cyno bridges are removed.

Then it might take a another hour for a 10,000 person fleet to get to your region but the end result is your still dead.

So in the grand scheme of things has anything really changed ?

So does it really matter if you are fighting on a gate or at a cyno point ?

Now interesting enough if you reverse things.

Say a 10,000 person fleet is blockading all the gates and you are trying to break out or get supplies in for the seige you now have an option with a cyno bridge or jump bridge.


In that extra hour, you could rep the structure or bash the structure you needed to, and a LOT has changed.
Flying 20j under 10% tidi because your 1000 man blob is murdering the server will discourage blobs, or at least cause hte blobs to fly in smaller groups.

As for the blocading: Jump freighters.

Gnaw LF wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:


You have absolutely no clue what the problems with nullsec are if you think Titans are among them.



Problems with null sec: Hundreds of Empty systems, Large Coalitions have no incentives to protect their systems from roaming gangs, little to no incentive to protect systems from small / roaming gangs, long structure grinds, lots of structure grinds to flip sov.

Solution: Nerf the Titan Bridge / Cyno Generation.

Such am assembly of great minds had never been seen before Roll


Because WH'ers are definitely the ones to fix 0.0 sov mechanics. Roll

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2012-12-02 02:26:07 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
moon depletion and random regenerations are even worse ideas than removing titan bridges. and it is quite difficult to come up with ideas that are that stupid.


Can't see you making any suggestions. You one of the "lets keep it the same" crowd?


- no more passive income generation via moon-goo
- replace generation of moon-goo with a mining-like fun and engaging group activity that has roles for 1 day old newbies and 10 year old veterans
- make sure alliances and corporations can generate an income by providing infrastructure that is necessary to make use of moongoo, such as refineries and production facilities that are not available (or extremely bad/expensive) in highsec and lowsec
- while doing so, take a look at where which ressources can be found and how these ressources must be combined to build T2 stuff (read: rebalance the technetium bottleneck)

happy now ?
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#119 - 2012-12-02 02:41:32 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
moon depletion and random regenerations are even worse ideas than removing titan bridges. and it is quite difficult to come up with ideas that are that stupid.


Can't see you making any suggestions. You one of the "lets keep it the same" crowd?


- no more passive income generation via moon-goo
- replace generation of moon-goo with a mining-like fun and engaging group activity that has roles for 1 day old newbies and 10 year old veterans
- make sure alliances and corporations can generate an income by providing infrastructure that is necessary to make use of moongoo, such as refineries and production facilities that are not available (or extremely bad/expensive) in highsec and lowsec
- while doing so, take a look at where which ressources can be found and how these ressources must be combined to build T2 stuff (read: rebalance the technetium bottleneck)

happy now ?


YES! Lol And some very good suggestions!

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#120 - 2012-12-02 02:44:20 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
moon depletion and random regenerations are even worse ideas than removing titan bridges. and it is quite difficult to come up with ideas that are that stupid.


Can't see you making any suggestions. You one of the "lets keep it the same" crowd?


- no more passive income generation via moon-goo
- replace generation of moon-goo with a mining-like fun and engaging group activity that has roles for 1 day old newbies and 10 year old veterans
- make sure alliances and corporations can generate an income by providing infrastructure that is necessary to make use of moongoo, such as refineries and production facilities that are not available (or extremely bad/expensive) in highsec and lowsec
- while doing so, take a look at where which ressources can be found and how these ressources must be combined to build T2 stuff (read: rebalance the technetium bottleneck)

happy now ?


YES! Lol And some very good suggestions!

He forgot to mention you need to nerf blobs.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?