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Orca's are't intended to be hauling ships. They're mining support vessels! CCP should just introduce an actual industrial that has a respectable and unscannable cargo hold.

It makes absolutely no sense for characters that are trained in freighters and industrials have to train mining+leadership skills for a ship that trumps most of the haulers in the game, period.

Either give the unscannable hold to DSTs, which have the best HP outside of freighters (which would certainly be OP with unscannable holds), or create a new ship altogether that accomplishes this. There's a huge hole for the ~100-150k m3 space in the industrial category anyhow.

What happens when you jettison something from a freighter that a single unit is bigger than a jet can? like for instance a CSAA?

I think I've come to understand CCPs reasoning with the transport ships!

They don't try to balance them by giving the unused ship variant a bonus that would make it usable, they balance them by giving the more used but fragile ship a big ass crosshairs on them, making them as useless as the other useless variant, thereby making them both similarly useless :D

This is Sooooo - Awesome!!!!!!
But please - be careful - we don't want Bots to mess up Ore Prices!!!! - But to be able to get my Fenrir out more than once a year!!! Mining Ops now will have an Orca a Big Fenrir thingy and loads of mining ships - Sweet :P

I'm happy!!!

Laters!

If you want to make the Deep Space Transports usable again, may I suggest they have the equivalent of an interdiction nullifier subsystem built in to them, making them immune to bubbles.

This would give them a reason to be used in 0.0 and combined with the +2 warp strength and some slight CPU/PG increases so they can mount a decent tank should make them a very viable choice

Yea but you missed the point.

The Orca wasn't "intended " to be a hauling ship. But it became a popular one due to.

1. Having enough EHP to not be easily ganked on a whim.
2. Having a CHA that was unscannable and ALSO VERY IMPORTANTLY
3. Having a CHA that never dropped.

These three things let people like me haul billions of sleeper loot safely to market. Heck I've even autopiloted tons 30+ jumps straight into Jita 4-4 with an orca.


Blockade runners will now.

1. Have the tank of a paper airplane
2. Have an unscannable cargo BUT
3. a cargo that drops

A bored gankers wet dream...

Hmmm well....

Still no way of transporting complete ships from A to B unless you use and Orca or contract (this should have been sorted years ago).

My Orca maintenance bay still can't fit a Noctis and an Exhumer (a skiff would be fine).

CCP... the next time you are doing work on cargo bays/ship corp hangers you really should give us the ability to transport at least three complete ships (with rigs) in one vessle.

Overly simplified, and overly complicated compensations to make up for the crap you do (as in, adding new containers to compensate for the lost divisions).

Let's see what I use my corp hangars for today:

* 1) In this 20man corp we have made the corp divions "personal". As in, when we use supercaps, capitals or orcas to move stuff, we know that division X belong to player X. And we name the divions after that person. This is really convenient for maintaining personal stuff, while moving, because we also give that particular person that particular divison access.

- 1) In this new system, we can't do that at all. Either we have no access at all, or we all have access to everything. I guess it's ok in the sense that this means we take more risks and have to trust eachother more, no problem. But - how do we separate eachothers items, without having to carry a gazillion of cans? To compensate for the divisions, now we have to bring cans for each person instead, for their fittings/loot/etc! Ok, let's pretend this is a good compensation offer, but, suddenly it strike you - how do you know what size of this container you'd use? Because an ammo or loot can will grow/shrink, while a module can won't. So everyone will have to take up alot more space of this particular ship to cover their bases, with alot bigger cans than they probably will need.. because they "might" need it.

* 2) Our alt trading/hauling/market corps has been using Orcas with divions set up to match our main corp. They do this to separate stuff they are hauling.

- 2) For them, the new cans might compensate, as they have a "fixed" storage size. But it will be a damn blob of cans instead in stations. For example, one of the alt corps arranges some of the buying/selling for a few people of us in Jita. That corp currently uses the corp divisions and wallet to separate who's assets/funds belongs to who. You could easily use multiple people in this 'business alt corp' to share the divisions/wallet access and all have access to everything. But with this new system, we'll have to keep moving stuff in and out of cans in corp headquarters (where there still is divisions), to keep things separated. Otherwise a single account will keep everything in his cans. And every person moving stuff, will end up having a big chunk of cans moving between Jita/other locations. Instead of making his inventory clean in whatever-system he is, like it is today (usually 5-10 station hangars + using divisions to separate), you now end up with 5-10 station hangars + all various sizes of cargo containers you use on the move + you need more corp offices for more divisons. It'll cost more, it will clutter up inventory more, it will make it less transparent and easy to manage over multiple accounts, etc.

3) Let's not get started over how bad it is freighters can now use cans, but I'm just gonna ignore that point and pretend someone had an aneurysm. It will be fun seeing the freighters sitting in ice belts everywhere tho.

So, is there nothing positive coming out?

The intentions above is positive, but it makes EVE alot more complicated and worse to manage for sure. But there are some positive changes. It was silly Orcas was not scannable, so it's good to see that gone. It was also weird they dropped no loot. It's also interesting to see the Blockade Runner getting the scan immunity, means people will have to take a chance on them, I doubt less of them will die, rather probably more of them. This is positive and an interesting change. Having more containers is not bad either, by itself, it's just bad it's handed out as a compensation for removing a much superior system (divisions). The changes CCP bring to make passwords and fleet settings store, is good as well.

But this:



That's just plain wrong. "not a lot of value" is completely off. They add something unique, that is really really good and valuable, and you remove it without replacing it with anything nearly as useful.

"Unecessary complexity" is also quite damn off, you're replacing something that is very simple, very useful, with something that is alot more complicated (using cans rather than divisions), which doesn't really add anything (bar them having more variation in size). The new system is more complicated, will take alot more inventory space, will have to be calculated carefullly about sizes on cans, will not alow separate members having separate access, harder to use across-multiple-accounts in shared corps, etc.

TL;DR, it's an unecessary change, and your reasons to do that is plain wrong. You're just trying to find arguments to push through changes you 'want' to have, but your arguments are plain invalid (or you have no experience of using the divisions, that'd explain why you don't see how useful they are). I suggest you shouldn't touch game changes for mechanics you don't understand, and stick to those you figured out how they work (non-scannable orca not even dropping loot etc). But don't try to take us for fools and post bullcrap like the reasons for the division removal, that is simply not truth/completely off.

From the patch notes:
"It is no longer possible to jettison unassembled ships from the cargo hold."



The CSAA remains in your cargo hold.

I, sir, do concede this point.
If you had read my post on page 10, you'd have seen that I think adding an unscannable hold to a BR is a dumb change, and that functionality is better suited to a DST.

The point I was making that you quoted is that a mining support vessel eclipsing haulers in almost every category was certainly unbalanced and was due for a nerf. I'm not against having a tanky, unscannable, and even drop-immune vessel. That vessel should just be a hauler of some sort, not a mining support ship.