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CSM7 Dec Summit Topic - Ship Balancing

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Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#1 - 2012-11-28 16:22:12 UTC
Go CCP Fozzie and CCP Ytterbium, they are awesome!

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2012-11-28 16:37:15 UTC
Cool

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#3 - 2012-11-28 16:48:00 UTC
Two step wrote:
Go CCP Fozzie and CCP Ytterbium, they are awesome!


seconded! Cool
Tanaka Aiko
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-11-28 17:21:02 UTC
Well keep up the good work, and try to revamp quickly the tech2 linked to the tech1 just rebalanced. Also black ops.
Javelin6
#5 - 2012-11-28 17:58:22 UTC
Black Ops Battleships. Make. It. Go.



SOONER.
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#6 - 2012-11-28 18:35:58 UTC
And hopefully the stabber gets another review sooner rather than later.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#7 - 2012-11-28 19:51:37 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
While I do agree fozz and Frenchie are awesome... But the op lacks real content... this thread should be locked for lack of content...

Nevermind... Op will update with more info...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#8 - 2012-11-29 01:15:48 UTC
This is likely to belong here.

Why no changes for cyno mechanics have been made for years, despite acknowledged PvP specialists clearly stating time and time again that this game area is in dire need of improvement?

CCP acknowledged long ago that 'they are not happy with hot-drops'. It's at least 14 months since then and no one even mentions this issue.

Was current CSM crew competent enough to at least bring this issue into internal discussion? CSM minutes lack any words on it.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
aoeu Itonula
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-11-29 02:20:18 UTC
Racial Cruisers that are now flat-out worse than t1 cruisers in many cases (Navy Vexor, etc)
Ruareve
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-11-29 03:34:49 UTC
I like the balancing for the most part, but I think combat ships are being limited too much. I'd like to see two or three versions of the same ship type but with focus on different weapon systems.

Example would be the Ferox. The current changes push the Ferox towards being a blaster sniper, but why can't there be a Ferox-M with focus on missile systems, or a Ferox-U focused on tank and speed with no weapon bonus.

I realize this would take longer to roll out to account for balancing issues, but I think having more bonused variety would be a good thing.

Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/
None ofthe Above
#11 - 2012-11-29 15:17:32 UTC
Most of the balancing, tiercide specifically, was a major win.

I am a bit concerned the upcoming HML nerf went too far. Particularly in the damage area (in the first rev it was blatant, now it's in the explosion radius), HMLs were not overpowered on damage. They were perhaps so on range, so that's easier to justify. Two hits with the nerf bat when one was perhaps called for.

Also, I still think the Racial Destroyers/Battlecruisers is still ill advised. It increases the gap between new pilot and old, and gives the old pilots nothing new except a higher clone cost. Biggest effect will be that most older pilots will be able to fly all racial subcaps (since we are all cross-training like mad) and new ones will be stuck with their own race longer (thus increasing their frustration and sense of futility in playing this game). To my mind, it solves nothing except some designer's apparent obsessive compulsive disorder to organize things in a specific way.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-11-29 18:20:30 UTC
Will Navy and Pirate faction ships be looked at before T2 hulls? As welcome as the rebalancing of T1 frigates and cruisers has been, it has left some of the faction frigs and cruisers looking a little obsolete.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2012-12-01 13:31:16 UTC
Javelin6 wrote:
Black Ops Battleships. Make. It. Go.



SOONER.


More range, less fuel! Big smile

Seriously, to bridge a BLOPs fleet now you have to be in an all cargo expander lows battleship, and if you want to go for a second drop without refueling? Forget it.

Help spread our reign of terror to the nullbears Twisted

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#14 - 2012-12-01 18:02:09 UTC
Black Ops Battleships and HACs (Caldari HACs lol) would be my top 2 to rebalance.


Also since ship balancing has spilled over somewhat in to mod balancing can we get torps, cruise missiles, and cap torps and cap CMs looked at?
Also super excited for the TD buff if/when it happens. Huge buff to missile ships.
In addition the T2 siege and triage modules have gone over very well. Any chance of T2 XL guns and ammo? T2 fighters/FBs? T2 cap reps and cap RR? Would make 0.0 and lowsec a lot more fun. Twisted
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#15 - 2012-12-02 00:34:45 UTC
Aliventi wrote:
Black Ops Battleships and HACs (Caldari HACs lol) would be my top 2 to rebalance.


Also since ship balancing has spilled over somewhat in to mod balancing can we get torps, cruise missiles, and cap torps and cap CMs looked at?
Also super excited for the TD buff if/when it happens. Huge buff to missile ships.
In addition the T2 siege and triage modules have gone over very well. Any chance of T2 XL guns and ammo? T2 fighters/FBs? T2 cap reps and cap RR? Would make 0.0 and lowsec a lot more fun. Twisted



Capital missiles truely are terrible.
A carrier can LITERALLY speed tank a Phoenix, its that bad...

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Noisrevbus
#16 - 2012-12-02 02:31:01 UTC
Here's a novel idea: make the ships cost ISK, so losing an entire fleet of them actually have meaning in this game Pirate.

I'm trying to figure out wether we can label that as a buff or a nerf. I'll get back to you on that.
2manno Asp
Death By Design
#17 - 2012-12-02 17:37:28 UTC  |  Edited by: 2manno Asp
No more new ships. we've got enough ships. For now.

What most combat ships need are more weapons systems to add variety.

No reason to trade one small group of guns for a medium group when going from frigate to cruiser for instance.

Normally ships retain all, or at least some, of the functionality of the ship they are an upgrade from.

Thus a cruiser for instance, should not only have it's medium guns, but retain an array of small guns as well.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-12-03 13:12:10 UTC
judging from the frigate and T1 cruiser hulls, you could not avoid a serious amount of power creep during the rebalance pass. if you're going to buff every hull and their mother, please at least be quick about it so that people don't have to fly an outclassed hull for months and months (i'm looking at you assault frigates).
please also be mindful to not accidentally obsolete another hull class the way most cruisers and HACs were for the longest time.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#19 - 2012-12-03 13:23:12 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Cool


Fantastic work. Keep on doing it!


PS It can be HACS time next plox? Dat poor Eagle Cry

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#20 - 2012-12-04 16:00:21 UTC
Fozzie and I had an all-day discussion on Twitter about this, so no need to beat the dead horse of why and how and whether T3s should be ejection blocked (we agreed to disagree, and I accept that this one would be ugly to untie from other ships), but there was one outstanding question on T3 ejection blocking. Please request an answer to his investigation into lore changes around T3s now being non-ejectable. Thanks.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
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