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DNS Black for CSM8
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Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#61 - 2012-11-30 17:33:49 UTC
Guys guys !! Stop this.. Its pointless.. Really ...
Qin Tawate
Doomheim
#62 - 2012-11-30 17:47:42 UTC

I see it like Gnaw LF.

It is odd, that he does not like Titan jump bridges, but runs an alliance, which is specialized in Black ops groups, who do basically Titan jump bridges on lower level.

Here is, how I would solve it:

Switch Moon mining in random spawns and not just 1 material all the time. What's the term for this? I forgot it... These tabels about moon minerals on dotlan should not exist. Today nobody probes a moon anymore. You just go on dot lan or check, if it has a POS with harvesters and good defense on it, because everything already has been explored.

SCs need to lose offensive powers. Not the jump bridge ability. Already today many SC owners ask themselves, why they have such an expensive ship, coffin of 1 char, especially if they are not in the No 1 cartel, which controls 2/3 of 0.0 and can not use it very often. I understand that. It is frustrating. They need new features as compensation or reimbursement for lost offensive capabilities. It can not be offensive features! Dreadnoughts should be the end of the line in DPS. Why? Because everybody can use dreadnoughts. Not everybody can afford a fleet of SC and always the bigger SC fleet wins. With the cartel, which we already have, this makes the cartel only stronger and nobody will ever break it.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2012-11-30 18:06:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
On principle it's profoundly stupid that the bigger, more expensive and unwieldy a fleet is, there is less time, less risk and less effort involved in crossing the galaxy. Cynos/bridges absolutely need some sort of mass limit or spool up timer.

Other then that very accurate observation, the post is full of nostalgia for an EVE that never was, a wild west environment over conflict minerals.
Qin Tawate
Doomheim
#64 - 2012-11-30 18:34:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Qin Tawate
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
On principle it's profoundly stupid that the bigger, more expensive and unwieldy a fleet is, there is less time, less risk and less effort involved in crossing the galaxy. Cynos/bridges absolutely need some sort of mass limit or spool up timer.

Other then that very accurate observation, the post is full of nostalgia for an EVE that never was, a wild west environment over conflict minerals.


wrong!

The problem with a limitation on mobility is: it hits everybody, whether it is just one guy or the biggest fleet ever seen.

It would be better to take away offensive capability, because taht stacks more than take away mobility. Nobody wants to fly a brick and waste time, until it aligns or jumps. Nobody. CCP should never ever nerf mobility. But the offensive power of SC still stacks to a level, which makes them invincible, when you have the biggest SC fleet.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2012-11-30 18:51:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Qin Tawate wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
On principle it's profoundly stupid that the bigger, more expensive and unwieldy a fleet is, there is less time, less risk and less effort involved in crossing the galaxy. Cynos/bridges absolutely need some sort of mass limit or spool up timer.

Other then that very accurate observation, the post is full of nostalgia for an EVE that never was, a wild west environment over conflict minerals.


wrong!

The problem with a limitation on mobility is: it hits everybody, whether it is just one guy or the biggest fleet ever seen.

Okay let's hear some examples about how a discussion on cyno mechanics effects 'one guy', like say a roaming cruiser.

Quote:
It would be better to take away offensive capability, because taht stacks more than take away mobility. Nobody wants to fly a brick and waste time, until it aligns or jumps. Nobody. CCP should never ever nerf mobility. But the offensive power of SC still stacks to a level, which makes them invincible, when you have the biggest SC fleet.
lol
Konrad Kane
#66 - 2012-11-30 20:54:12 UTC
Gnaw LF wrote:

[...] DNS Black and his alliance stand to gain from removal of Titan Bridges.


How?
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2012-11-30 21:06:39 UTC
Konrad Kane wrote:
Gnaw LF wrote:

[...] DNS Black and his alliance stand to gain from removal of Titan Bridges.


How?






Because when they are doing their Black Ops Hot Drops they insure that no one will counter drop them with a Titan Bridge?
Konrad Kane
#68 - 2012-11-30 21:10:37 UTC
Gnaw LF wrote:
Konrad Kane wrote:
Gnaw LF wrote:

[...] DNS Black and his alliance stand to gain from removal of Titan Bridges.


How?






Because when they are doing their Black Ops Hot Drops they insure that no one will counter drop them with a Titan Bridge?


lol - so you believe that he's written that to stop being counter dropped?

Okay, glad we cleared that up.

Thanks
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2012-11-30 21:20:52 UTC
Konrad Kane wrote:
Gnaw LF wrote:
Konrad Kane wrote:
Gnaw LF wrote:

[...] DNS Black and his alliance stand to gain from removal of Titan Bridges.


How?






Because when they are doing their Black Ops Hot Drops they insure that no one will counter drop them with a Titan Bridge?


lol - so you believe that he's written that to stop being counter dropped?

Okay, glad we cleared that up.

Thanks



There might be a ton of reasons for him to write that up, however all I am saying is that he is a bad choice for CSM candidate for multiple reasons:

-First, he ignored or is not aware of the CCP changes that are coming to Moon Goo.
-Second, his allaiance MO is designed in such a way that they do not used gates. Kinda hypocritical to write an Open Letter about gate fights while ignoring the same gates yourself, eh?
-Third, he is proposing a nerf that really will not help the null sec. I mean the problem is clearly force projection and not hundreds upon hundreds of empty or under utilized systems. Clearly.
-Fourth, as indicated by other member of his alliance in this very thread. Their way of gameplay stands to benefit if someone else's way of gameplay is diminished.

My alliance stands to benefit the most from Titan Bridge removal, we control 45 Etana BPCs and if the Titan Bridging is gone it will be the ONLY logistic ship capable of being bridged. However, you do not see me advocating this idea. Removing something from the game is never a solution, re-balancing or using alternative mechanics is always better. crying about it while doing something similar only on a smaller scale is what DNS Black is all about. He wants to nerf Titan Bridging but his alliance is nothing without Black Ops bridging.
Konrad Kane
#70 - 2012-11-30 21:32:22 UTC
Black can speak for himself, but just to quote him when someone else pointed out he liked dropping people - from the EN24 comments:

'Even tho Black ops is limited to many factors. I would give up Black ops hot drops in a sec for the eve I knew 7 years ago. Movement thru the gates of eve is what this is about. If you look at early DNS film on you tube you will see some of the most fun I have ever had playing this game.'

Having heard him talk about these issues that letter are his sincere thoughts about how he believes the game can be improved. Obviously people are free to disagree with his ideas. You just appear to rather play the man than the ball.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2012-11-30 21:38:01 UTC
Konrad Kane wrote:
Black can speak for himself, but just to quote him when someone else pointed out he liked dropping people - from the EN24 comments:

'Even tho Black ops is limited to many factors. I would give up Black ops hot drops in a sec for the eve I knew 7 years ago. Movement thru the gates of eve is what this is about. If you look at early DNS film on you tube you will see some of the most fun I have ever had playing this game.'

Having heard him talk about these issues that letter are his sincere thoughts about how he believes the game can be improved. Obviously people are free to disagree with his ideas. You just appear to rather play the man than the ball.





No, I rather play "Put your money where your mouth is". If he is so keen for proper fights on gates and null sec roams than he and his alliance should adopt that as their main style of play. Instead all we get are empty promises.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#72 - 2012-12-01 01:23:10 UTC
DNS Black's points are good. CCP should implement his suggestions.

yk
YuuKnow
The Scope
#73 - 2012-12-01 01:26:27 UTC  |  Edited by: YuuKnow
Gnaw LF wrote:
Konrad Kane wrote:
Black can speak for himself, but just to quote him when someone else pointed out he liked dropping people - from the EN24 comments:

'Even tho Black ops is limited to many factors. I would give up Black ops hot drops in a sec for the eve I knew 7 years ago. Movement thru the gates of eve is what this is about. If you look at early DNS film on you tube you will see some of the most fun I have ever had playing this game.'

Having heard him talk about these issues that letter are his sincere thoughts about how he believes the game can be improved. Obviously people are free to disagree with his ideas. You just appear to rather play the man than the ball.





No, I rather play "Put your money where your mouth is". If he is so keen for proper fights on gates and null sec roams than he and his alliance should adopt that as their main style of play. Instead all we get are empty promises.


Stupid argument. If a tatics is vastly superior and there to use to beat your enemies, then a player is going to use it, despite whether he thinks it should have been changed.

-1
Elzon1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#74 - 2012-12-01 02:34:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Elzon1
YuuKnow wrote:
DNS Black's points are good. CCP should implement his suggestions.

yk


No they shouldn't. I'm entirely sure DNS Black is aware of the jump portal fuel consumption equation. The only thing that needs to be changed is the MCF of the jump portal generator.

Jump Portal Mass Consumption Factor (aka MCF)
Jump Fuel Conservation (JFC_level)
base amount of fuel the Titan/Black Op ships needs to jump itself (base fuel cost)

Mass * MCF * ((base fuel cost) - (base fuel cost * 0.10 * (JFC_level))) = fuel required / light year

Most people don't know about this simple equation so DNS Black made a simpler suggestion that the vast majority of ignorant fools would understand.

It feels like he was trolling more than anything. His post can't really be taken seriously when one considers the above equation. IF CCP nerfs the jump portal generator they will do it through the MCF number as that is the easiest and most effective way of nerfing Titan bridges.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#75 - 2012-12-01 02:57:19 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
The Mittani for CSM 2013!


Shut up you pathetic little loser, this doesn't concern you.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Lolar55
Banana Toaster
#76 - 2012-12-01 05:39:28 UTC
Just make the titans require crapload of fuel to bridge any ship there goes all that moon goo income.If you wanna bridge a fleet.Great isk sink if not anything elseOops
vladhammerfall
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#77 - 2012-12-01 05:54:53 UTC
Kalissis wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:

4) Combine with article points (1 cyno per grid, 1 bridge per cyno)


What article are you talking about? DNS BLACK did not write any of this.
Back to the matter at hand, you can't make a tumor better by not removing it. Just remove the whole damn thing and be done with one of the many bad decisions ever made by CCP.


Uh, FYI . Black did write it . In fact he presented it to the Corps for help editing it. He may act like a hobbit, but he has his mind in what is best for EVE.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2012-12-01 07:41:45 UTC
Lolar55 wrote:
Just make the titans require crapload of fuel to bridge any ship there goes all that moon goo income.If you wanna bridge a fleet.Great isk sink if not anything elseOops


What are you saying? You only want Titan Bridging to be at all affordable to the CFC and PL?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#79 - 2012-12-01 07:43:20 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Lolar55 wrote:
Just make the titans require crapload of fuel to bridge any ship there goes all that moon goo income.If you wanna bridge a fleet.Great isk sink if not anything elseOops


What are you saying? You only want Titan Bridging to be at all affordable to the CFC and PL?


I think what they are saying is: they want blops drops only and small gang to be strictly enforced throughout 0.0

.
Josef Djugashvilis
#80 - 2012-12-01 08:38:59 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
The Mittani for CSM 2013!


Does he still have a subscription to Eve?

This is not a signature.