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Does lowsec need a buff?

Author
Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#61 - 2012-11-30 04:50:16 UTC
Tarvos Telesto wrote:
You all are wrong! hery why, no chance for boost low sec by any way, because of people behaviour.

Low sec cant by buffed because pirates nerf it every time when they overblob gates with like 15 man fleet of tech 3 ships.

Pirates are responsible (in natutal way) for low visits in low sec by neutrals... Game mechanic never change this.

If they want more targets just stop overblob gates to single enemy, this is some kind of pirates hypocrisy.
Here no chance to change low sec until people change play style or own mind...

A ordinary carebear - neutral guy who die to pirate blob never enter again low sec, even pirates pay to him... except few people, who like risk etc, but not mass community.

who says lowseccers need more targets? there's plenty down here already

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."

Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
The Whale Hunters Association
#62 - 2012-11-30 04:55:15 UTC
low sec is fine it just needs to hire a better PR firm.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#63 - 2012-11-30 07:37:48 UTC
Low sec is a nice place to go when you want some peace and quiet from gankers and nulltards.

But I'd be happy to see it erased from the game entirely and simply divide all space into two areas. Lawful and lawless.

In theory, low sec is an interesting concept. But in practice, it's a total failure. Nothing CCP has done over the years has made it in any way attractive to actually live in and try to earn some ISK. It's a wasteland that could be put to much better use by dividing it up and parceling it out into high and null.

Mr Epeen Cool
DrunkenNinja
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#64 - 2012-11-30 11:05:55 UTC  |  Edited by: DrunkenNinja
Tarvos Telesto wrote:
You all are wrong! hery why, no chance for boost low sec by any way, because of people behaviour.

Low sec cant by buffed because pirates nerf it every time when they overblob gates with like 15 man fleet of tech 3 ships.

Pirates are responsible (in natutal way) for low visits in low sec by neutrals... Game mechanic never change this.

If they want more targets just stop overblob gates to single enemy, this is some kind of pirates hypocrisy.
Here no chance to change low sec until people change play style or own mind...

A ordinary carebear - neutral guy who die to pirate blob never enter again low sec, even pirates pay to him... except few people, who like risk etc, but not mass community.


The thing is though, most of these players aren't "carebears", they actively PvP in lots of other videogames.

The reason why they don't enter lowsec much is because they think it's simply not worth it or viable.

Which is why, imo, it might be a good idea to increase the profitability of low security space, to balance the risk.
Kira Vanachura
Green Visstick High
#65 - 2012-11-30 12:14:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Kira Vanachura
No, lowsec doesn't need a buff.

What's broken is the risk/reward ration. Buffing lowsec won't fix that without breaking something else. What's needed is a reduction in risk for doing stuff in lowsec. This can be accomplished by empowering the good guys to chase the bad guys out.

Retribution changes help to enable and reward the good guys to do their thing:
- crimewatch
- transferrable killrights
- bounty system
This will not be enough to fix lowsec, but it is a good first step. I wouldn't be surprised if the new crimewatch system will be used to give us more good stuff in the expansion following retribution.

I think plenty of 'bad guys' will become 'good guys' if they get the tools for it. Nowadays if you want to PvP in empire there is little else than become a bad guy.
Doddy
Excidium.
#66 - 2012-11-30 12:59:57 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
DrunkenNinja wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
some people say: yes
other (and i trust them) say: nope, increased profits won't make low-sec more populated.

And about "dare to be bold". Eve gives you a choices. It's up to you to choose something. Your choice - low sec. That's ok. My choice for nearest time - high sec (got bored by 0.0 sec). Noone forces us to choose one option or another. Then why rewarding one of them?



I'd say it's pretty darn likely that increased profits WOULD make lowsec more populated, and more people would fight over these resources—which I would find fun.

0.0 sec shows: rich resources not always provoke conflict. Take a look to moons income.
However i don't want to argue here because this question has like 100+ threads in this forum. Let's not start another one.

DrunkenNinja wrote:

I'm not saying nerf your ability to play it safe and make a steady ISK income.
Just allow players to take greater risks for greater rewards.

Boosting one area -> more ISK into game -> prices for everything growing == nerf for all other areas

And low-sec is already more rewarding than high-sec.

Kehro Urgus wrote:
Low sec would be much more popular if it had concord. Smile

It's more likely Lol


Its amazing but you are entirely wrong. Moon goo drove 0.0 combat for 5 years, the fact one conglomorate has finally won doesn't mean resources don't drive conflict. Buffing an area doesn't have to add more isk into game, quite the opposite in fact, just look at FW, isk removed from game, lots of rich happy people.

Personally i think they should buff lo sec by adding cruiser/bc hull officers with medium x-type equiv loot.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2012-11-30 14:24:44 UTC
Doddy wrote:

Its amazing but you are entirely wrong. Moon goo drove 0.0 combat for 5 years, the fact one conglomorate has finally won doesn't mean resources don't drive conflict.

i'm 2 years in game and had never heard about Tech moons before goons took it. So i could be wrong here for sure.

Doddy wrote:

Buffing an area doesn't have to add more isk into game, quite the opposite in fact, just look at FW, isk removed from game, lots of rich happy people.

Well FW and Incursions made some people rich enough so demand for PLEX raised significally. So yea, there was no more ISK into game. However that buffs made PLEX more expensive so all other areas "got nerf" because of this buf.

Doddy wrote:
Personally i think they should buff lo sec by adding cruiser/bc hull officers with medium x-type equiv loot.

it won't hurt anyone. However i don't see any reasons this buf can move high-sec people to visit low-sec.

You know: for like 1.5 years in 0.0 i've never seen one officer spawn in belt. Yes, i know there are people who found and killed those spawns. And got rich. However this knowing can't force me to try to move into 0.0 again to try to find such a look. It is simply too much risk and too low possibility of any luck there.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2012-11-30 14:30:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Opertone
There is a bag of cash dropped on the highway... You have no clones, how much money would it take for you to actually risk your life and fetch that bag from the middle of the deadly traffic?

Low sec should be more of financial risk of making no income as of unforseen events and bad planning, not a lethal risk of blowing most of your stuff.

Low sec has too much lethal risks, the reward is like a 10 bucks note...


Risk and Reward of Low Sec is not balanced. Risk is immense.

Reward is 15% higher than high sec.

think about the rationality of low sec activities

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#69 - 2012-11-30 14:32:10 UTC
Opertone wrote:
think about the rationality of low sec activities

Gatecamping with a blob.

Hmm, I see.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-11-30 14:48:40 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Opertone wrote:
think about the rationality of low sec activities

Gatecamping with a blob.
Hmm, I see.


It may give free kills, what is the value of such kills?

Newbies have no expensive stuff, experienced players watch kill/pod statistics, freighters should use scouts.

Overtime, the value of kills will diminish.

Explain more of what you see.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again

SunBurnt
The Blue Moon Tribe
#71 - 2012-11-30 14:51:33 UTC
One of the ways I see of helping Low Sec is by adding new ship designs!


Right now all ships in EVE have a roll and that tends to very specific.

I cannot build a ship that has some Defence/firepower and some cargo. If I head out into Low sec (solo or in small numbers) in any form of Indy ship and I get jumped than I can run or die.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_merchantman

"However, many East Indiamen also travelled on their own, and therefore were armed to the same standard as a ship of the line in order to defend themselves against pirates and privateers".

Is what I am thinking. Don't need the "same standard as a ship of the line" But if there two armed Merchants than we MIGHT stand a chance.

just my 2 cents...probably wrong. The environment is fine the method of using it is what needs fixing.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#72 - 2012-11-30 14:51:50 UTC
DrunkenNinja wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
You realise you just said exactly the same thing I just said, right? Only the way I said it holds more truth.


Fact of the matter is though, young males are not risk averse, and they're the major target audience for EVE whether you like it or not—so it seems much more likely that the system simply does not encourage risk taking.

Hm, highsec mining, mission running and incursioning.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Skaz
Skazmanian Industries
#73 - 2012-11-30 15:06:42 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Lowsec doesn't need a buff, it needs a complete re-imagining. Right now it's a strange hybrid between the worst aspects of highsec and the worst aspects of nullsec without any of the benefits of either. You give up all of the safeties of highsec , and yet PVP comes with sec status hits and restrictions on bubbles, and PVE just doesn't reward as well as null. About the only thing it has going for it is Faction Warfare.

Of all the tasks CCP has ahead of them, finding a true purpose for lowsec is probably their hardest one.



Listen to this man.

-... ..- -.-- / -- -.-- / ... - ..- ..-. ..-. / --- -. / - .... . / -- .- .-. -.- . - / - .... .. ... / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. . / .. -.. . .- / .. ... / ... .... .- -- . .-.. . ... ... .-.. -.-- / ... - --- .-.. . -.

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2012-11-30 15:07:07 UTC
Opertone wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Opertone wrote:
think about the rationality of low sec activities

Gatecamping with a blob.
Hmm, I see.


It may give free kills, what is the value of such kills?

the main problem is: such kills produce some number used to compare different corporations inside some of 0.0 alliances. Who has more kills - winner. At least alliances i've been to used this numbers as metric of 'pvp-activity' of their members.

So yes. I hated this activity but i needed to take participation to help to my corp.
It's one of the reasons why i returned to high-sec.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-11-30 15:14:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
how to fix lowsec:

gate guns dont shoot drones (except carrier drones)
gate guns dont shoot frigs that incur a sec hit, instead disrupt their scan res

plexes yield less useless deadspace loot (hint: make the deadspace mods that no one wants actually useful, so plexes actually drop good loot more often instead of dropping "good loot" that on the market is crap)

sec status possible to increase via pirate tags and ratting, ratting in low sec increases sec status much faster than current, rats escalate gradually but have lowered bounties compared to typical rats. After reaching sec status of 0, rats increase sec status at the normal rate.

Pirate officer mods. Damn right. I want to fight guristas officers and see them pod out when i pop them. They can spawn on gate or on station, and may be supported by reinforcements. Have the meta level of their drops similar to deadspace A-type/X-type depending on officer.

Pirating and anti-pirating a bigger role in low sec. Faction warfare should be a direct sibling of pirating and anti-pirating, not the only thing you ever focus on for low sec. Pirating and anti-pirating has been around since before factional warfare.

There should be a module with which to scan implants on a pod, which gives sec hits for using. Allows proper ransoming and helps piracy be an actual profession as you continue to make it out to be instead of simply a playstyle people adopt.

Opertone wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Opertone wrote:
think about the rationality of low sec activities

Gatecamping with a blob.
Hmm, I see.


It may give free kills, what is the value of such kills?

Newbies have no expensive stuff, experienced players watch kill/pod statistics, freighters should use scouts.

Overtime, the value of kills will diminish.

Explain more of what you see.


well we've destroyed 130b this month so far,

of course only a fraction of that dropped, but still.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#76 - 2012-11-30 15:55:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Karrl Tian
Opertone wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Opertone wrote:
think about the rationality of low sec activities

Gatecamping with a blob.
Hmm, I see.


It may give free kills, what is the value of such kills?

Newbies have no expensive stuff, experienced players watch kill/pod statistics, freighters should use scouts.



But every so often you find one that doesn't, or you find that guy who loads up a frigate with deadspace mods, or tries to carry BPOs in a shuttle, or hit the wrong gate, or forget to reset his autopilot for highsec only and it validates the whole thing----think of that t3 killed in Rancer carrying 90 PLEX (none of which dropped btw).
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2012-11-30 16:07:54 UTC
quick and dirty way to boost low sec? remove Incursions from High Sec and have only in low and Null

thank you

Please tip your waiter.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#78 - 2012-11-30 17:20:46 UTC
What would "fix" low sec is to add some actual security. As it is now, low sec is just null without bubbles.

3 suggestions:

1. NPC police spawns at gates and on stations.
2. More gate guns, better gate guns, different kinds of gate guns (ewar or capacitor warfare).
3 Player police. Not everyone wants to be a villain and not everyone wants to be a partisan in faction warfare. Let us join CONCORD.

I'll elaborate.

It is ridiculous to think that on one side of a gate is the all-powerful CONCORD and one mousclick away is lawless space. Low sec is supposed to be LOW security space, not NO security space. If there is a CONCORD or faction navy station IN the system, why the hell wouldn't there be CONCORD or faction navy NPCs there? Or, how about some Ishukone security ships or The Scope security . . . at their own stations? The Angel Cartel apparently has enough ships and personnel to patrol every single asteroid and ice belt from here to Insmother, but the most powerful empires in the galaxy can't even afford to put 1 ship on their own station? Give me a break. I don't advocate instant death for outlaws, but there could definitely be more game mechanisms to disrupt their activities, like there are for miners. (Miners don't like rats.)

Gate guns as a deterrent to piracy is an interesting idea, but they just don't do enough against players whose sole focus is combat, and whose ship-fittings and fleet compositions are designed for the singular purpose of gate camping. They just haven't kept pace. If even just one more gun was added or an ewar or neuting battery, it would change the complexion of many of the clashes that occur on gates and at stations. As it is now, anyone trying to run through a low sec system who gets jumped is probably fighting in enemy territory as it is, and with warp scrambling, ECM, remote repairing, fleet boosting etc. that give compounding advantage to increasingly large groups of players, if you aren't fully equipped, prepared, and lucky, you aren't going to survive walking into low sec, letalone living there. If you can't defend yourself just walking through the door, you aren't going to be there.

The last suggestion is my favorite, and I'll start the elaboration off with a quote from one of my favorite historical figures: "Discipline is the soul of an army. It makes small numbers formidable; procures success to the weak . . ."
It doesn't matter how many do-gooders there are if the do-badders are more organized. Like it or not, the bad guys have won in EVE to this point. Most major alliances live to beat up on you, exploit you, take your stuff, and generally **** on your gaming experience, unless you are one of them or blue to them. And, they don't do it just with ship combat. They do it with propoganda. With trade. With politics. With whatever they can. If I want to pirate, gank, blob, rob and cheat, there are plenty of places to go. If I want to kiss the rings of a mega-CEO in order to mine HIS ore or rat HIS complexes or patrol HIS systems, I could find a corp in 5 minutes. But, if I want to resist, I have virtually no option but to play solo. Make CONCORD a joinable NPC corp and I think you will see flights of CONCORD even roaming into null security space . . . or admit that chaos and lawlesness is the ultimate, unstated goal of EVE Online.
Qin Tawate
Doomheim
#79 - 2012-11-30 17:56:05 UTC

Low Sec needs a buff, because there is not enough non-Sov space, which is good for new alliances to develop. There is not enough NPC 0.0 space.
No Alibi
Sometimes Here
#80 - 2012-11-30 17:57:40 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
Silk daShocka wrote:

So why do you leave trading out of the list? It's the only high-sec profession that has absolutely 0 risk.


HAHAHAHA.... LOL

Quote:
I mean I'm just curious as to why you think all the low income activities in hi-sec should be nerfed, yet you overlook the most profitable way to make money in all of eve, which coincidentally, the pilot who chooses to pursue this career can also choose to do it entirely risk-free.


Okay, you realy need to shut up. While you are risking just your ship and pod, trader risk his whole fortune. No "risk free" dude. Also if you raise taxes it doesnt help either. It just raises prices. It also applies for industry. Industrialist doesnt give a f... if tritanium is cheap or expensive on market. It just raises the price of final product, but his profit would be the same.

Sorry but you are just like those rednecks who lives in the middle of f... desert and complaining how rich are those people trading on Wall street.

While rats, missions or any other PVE activity is given by game system and thus can be moddified, trading is entirely player based. Jita was not meant to be hub. Players themselves decided to be a trade hub. You cannot "nerf" something what is player driven. You can change it, but players will just adapt = no change (or nerf) at all.

With the addition of high sec divided by low sec systems jita would no long be THE trade hub.
You would end up with 4 hubs divided by lowsec with trade between them by the less risk adverse players.

And then suddenly targets in low sec.

Ummm.... I think there are already 4 trade hubs??? Could be wrong but Shocked

I fly by the seat of my pants, No wonder my ass is always on fire!