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Dev blog: Corp Hangars on ships and You

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Viscis Breeze
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#121 - 2012-11-30 16:24:09 UTC
Nicol Caius wrote:
@Devs,
please reconsider the unscannable bonus to the blockade runner. as others have said, its largely a determent to this ship class. my blockade runner will now be a target for just auto-piloting to jita empty. the best case scenario would be to give this bonus to the deep space transport. this would improve the usage of this ship class, isn't that way you guys are aiming for with all the other ship balancing changes? if this isn't possible, i suggest removing it altogether. i'd rather not have my expensive blockade runners being used as pinatas wherever i go to hi-sec.


I would at least like the option to turn it off.

Recruitment: http://bit.ly/1r4G5Pv Website: http://www.no-vacancies.net/ Channel: No Vacancies
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#122 - 2012-11-30 16:24:51 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Habakuk
Udonor wrote:
...
#1 it would really be nice if you could change labels of cans on ships (and for freighters assemble cans)
...


It is now possible to rename cans in your ship. Thanks to the CSM reminding us about this, we would have missed it, as it was already possible for dev characters.

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#123 - 2012-11-30 16:27:11 UTC
Merouk Baas wrote:
RE: Deep Space Transports having scan immunity, I think they just didn't want to give the immunity to the tanky ship. All the suicide gankers will start complaining that their profession has been nerfed if they make this change. Because not only do they have to attack a tanky ship now, but now they won't even know what the payout will be. And that's completely unfair to suicide gankers.

So you guys can logically argue it all you want, the decision wasn't made based on the arguments you're arguing.


Orcas have had scan immunity for years and they're far tankier than DSTs.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Kimo Khan
Rage Against All Reds
GunFam
#124 - 2012-11-30 16:27:33 UTC
Viscis Breeze wrote:
Nicol Caius wrote:
@Devs,
please reconsider the unscannable bonus to the blockade runner. as others have said, its largely a determent to this ship class. my blockade runner will now be a target for just auto-piloting to jita empty. the best case scenario would be to give this bonus to the deep space transport. this would improve the usage of this ship class, isn't that way you guys are aiming for with all the other ship balancing changes? if this isn't possible, i suggest removing it altogether. i'd rather not have my expensive blockade runners being used as pinatas wherever i go to hi-sec.


I would at least like the option to turn it off.


Ok you turn it off with nothing in your cargo hold. Question: Is the cargo empty or blocked. How does the ganker know?
GKO
Perkone
Caldari State
#125 - 2012-11-30 16:31:30 UTC
Viscis Breeze wrote:
Nicol Caius wrote:
@Devs,
please reconsider the unscannable bonus to the blockade runner. as others have said, its largely a determent to this ship class. my blockade runner will now be a target for just auto-piloting to jita empty. the best case scenario would be to give this bonus to the deep space transport. this would improve the usage of this ship class, isn't that way you guys are aiming for with all the other ship balancing changes? if this isn't possible, i suggest removing it altogether. i'd rather not have my expensive blockade runners being used as pinatas wherever i go to hi-sec.


I would at least like the option to turn it off.



Yeah, FoxFour can you do that?
Arcosian
Arcosian Heavy Industries Corp Holding
#126 - 2012-11-30 16:33:22 UTC
Throwing a quick fit together in EFT for a tanky occator you can get about 80k ehp with a 20sec align time. Ugh Only 6k cargohold though so unless you are AFK flying to Jita you would be better off using the cloaky haulers with 10k cargohold.

Orca can get around 200k ehp so unscannable really makes no sense on a DST with the cloaky haulers getting more cargohold and being unscannable already thanks to the cloak.
Singulis Pacifica
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2012-11-30 16:34:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Singulis Pacifica
Merouk Baas wrote:
RE: Deep Space Transports having scan immunity, I think they just didn't want to give the immunity to the tanky ship. All the suicide gankers will start complaining that their profession has been nerfed if they make this change. Because not only do they have to attack a tanky ship now, but now they won't even know what the payout will be. And that's completely unfair to suicide gankers.

So you guys can logically argue it all you want, the decision wasn't made based on the arguments you're arguing.


Except that you forget the fact where cargo-scan immunity comes from: an Orca. This ship, although not as sturdy as a freighter, is already a tank on its own (granted that it needs to be fitted accordingly). So what CCP does now is remove this from a ship with a decent tank (can survive a multiple ship suicide gank), to a ship without this tanking ability.

Removing it from an Orca to a Blockade Runner essentially makes it easier for suicide gankers.
Removing it from an Orca to a Deep Space Transport makes it somewhat comparable to the current situation.

DST's align faster than Orca's, but can haul less. Their tanking ability should roughly be the same, but I'm no specialized Orca pilot, so I have to rely on the basic knowledge of the ship.
Viscis Breeze
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#128 - 2012-11-30 16:39:48 UTC
Kimo Khan wrote:
Viscis Breeze wrote:
Nicol Caius wrote:
@Devs,
please reconsider the unscannable bonus to the blockade runner. as others have said, its largely a determent to this ship class. my blockade runner will now be a target for just auto-piloting to jita empty. the best case scenario would be to give this bonus to the deep space transport. this would improve the usage of this ship class, isn't that way you guys are aiming for with all the other ship balancing changes? if this isn't possible, i suggest removing it altogether. i'd rather not have my expensive blockade runners being used as pinatas wherever i go to hi-sec.


I would at least like the option to turn it off.


Ok you turn it off with nothing in your cargo hold. Question: Is the cargo empty or blocked. How does the ganker know?


Fair point.

Maybe a work around saying that the "cargo hold cannot be penetrated with your scanners" or "the cargo hold is empty"

Recruitment: http://bit.ly/1r4G5Pv Website: http://www.no-vacancies.net/ Channel: No Vacancies
No0I3sTyLeI2
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#129 - 2012-11-30 16:41:11 UTC
Well done CCP! Thank you! Excellent work! But... will u reimb my orca SPs, maybe?
Kimo Khan
Rage Against All Reds
GunFam
#130 - 2012-11-30 16:43:01 UTC
Viscis Breeze wrote:
Kimo Khan wrote:
Viscis Breeze wrote:
Nicol Caius wrote:
@Devs,
please reconsider the unscannable bonus to the blockade runner. as others have said, its largely a determent to this ship class. my blockade runner will now be a target for just auto-piloting to jita empty. the best case scenario would be to give this bonus to the deep space transport. this would improve the usage of this ship class, isn't that way you guys are aiming for with all the other ship balancing changes? if this isn't possible, i suggest removing it altogether. i'd rather not have my expensive blockade runners being used as pinatas wherever i go to hi-sec.


I would at least like the option to turn it off.


Ok you turn it off with nothing in your cargo hold. Question: Is the cargo empty or blocked. How does the ganker know?


Fair point.

Maybe a work around saying that the "cargo hold cannot be penetrated with your scanners" or "the cargo hold is empty"



I think a better idea would be unscannable containers. Only usable on T2 Transport ships. So both the Blockade Runner and Deep Space Transport can use them but only if they want.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#131 - 2012-11-30 16:50:17 UTC
Very nice changes.

i was a bid sad to see my Orca lose its secure transport role when it was announce, even though it was a very sensible change. But now that I'm being compensated with another ship doing the same thing, it's all good. Surprise buffs — best buffs. Big smile
Daedra Blue
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2012-11-30 16:59:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Daedra Blue
CCP Arrow wrote:
Pinky Denmark wrote:
I love this change - But plz don't ever, never do anything like this to my super organized and arranged corp hangars in stations which I put a lot of work into...


No worries, the corp hangars will have their 7 divisions like before Smile


Which i personally think it sucks. I understood why it was like this at first it would have been ridiculous to display many hangers like TAB the way it used to be in the old UI but with the new UI you can now make the Division system the way it was suppose to be. A fixed number of 7 is such a poor excuse of having a bad UI to display a custom number of divisions.

You can now make the corp hanger everywhere customizable in 2 parts.

This is the time to mimic windows permissions and also a great time to start making some decent changes to the mess corporation rights/permissions management is.

Rights specific for hangars.
- View -Yes\No
- Take -Yes\No
- Put - Yes\No (yeah having by default the right to dump trash into your hangers isn't great and it is a stupid idea.)

Create divisions:
As many as you require.
Division type: Global (In all corporate hangars)
: Local (Just in that particular container)
*Global divisions will show up in all containers to witch local divisions will add on a per container basis.

EX:
Global Division - "Public"
POS Hangar Local Division - "Unrefined Ore"
Station Hangar @ StationName Local Division "Unrefined Ore"
Station Hangar @ StationName Local Division "Refined Ore"


Right groups.
Ex:
Group - "Ore Miners"
- Add division to group -> (Corp Divisions Explorer / with search and grouping by (location/type/etc.) )
To - POS Hangar Local Division - "Unrefined Ore" - View(Yes)\Take(Yes)\Put(Yes)
Group - "Ore Transporters"
To - POS Hangar Local Division - "Unrefined Ore" - View(Yes)\Take(Yes)\Put(Yes)
Station Hangar @ StationName Local Division "Unrefined Ore" - View(Yes)\Take(Yes)\Put(Yes)
Group - "Ore Refiners"
Station Hangar @ StationName Local Division "Unrefined Ore" - View(Yes)\Take(Yes)\Put(Yes)
Station Hangar @ StationName Local Division "Refined Ore" - View(Yes)\Take(Yes)\Put(Yes)

With this you can even give a proper actually usefulness to the AUDIT tab in the Corporation panel by being able to show rights to places for a certain rights group and/or player in the corp.

Simply add people to the groups and all is fine.
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2012-11-30 17:00:46 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Crunac Arclight wrote:
Nice changes, but why make the Blockade Runner's cargo unscannable?

It is already quite agile and cloaky enough to avoid trouble. It would make more sense to give this buff to the God-forsaken Deep Space Transports of which I have seen none to date.


We did consider this and discussed it a fair bit. It was however determined that it fit the role of the blockade runner far more. We are aware of how... unpopular the deep space transports are however.


Never even tought to buy deep space transport over mammoth.. Dont see the point of whole ship class. But if you would give it like 50k m3 while fitted i might be intrested to buy one of those...
Crexa
Ion Industrials
#134 - 2012-11-30 17:06:30 UTC

"...but we need to get the complexity of EVE under control and doing so is going to require functionality downgrades in certain areas."


This scares the living Be-jesus out of me!!!!!!!!!!! Why? Because complexity is the hallmark of EvE Online. PLEASE! Keep in mind that streamlining for the sake of reducing complexity is not always a good thing.

"F=ma, so obviously they're putting mouths against arses to produce a force." "...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?"
Prime FLux
Perkone
Caldari State
#135 - 2012-11-30 17:08:45 UTC
Or why not make Cargohold / Fleethangar share the same cargospace volume. But dynamically distribute the volume between them.

That would allow us to keep our private stuff separated from those we want to share with fleet.
Crexa
Ion Industrials
#136 - 2012-11-30 17:14:15 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Crunac Arclight wrote:
Nice changes, but why make the Blockade Runner's cargo unscannable?

It is already quite agile and cloaky enough to avoid trouble. It would make more sense to give this buff to the God-forsaken Deep Space Transports of which I have seen none to date.


We did consider this and discussed it a fair bit. It was however determined that it fit the role of the blockade runner far more. We are aware of how... unpopular the deep space transports are however.



Could we possibly see, would it be, maybe a jump capability?!!?

"F=ma, so obviously they're putting mouths against arses to produce a force." "...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?"
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#137 - 2012-11-30 17:18:54 UTC
Quote:
Ship maintenance bays are somewhat special: they will be scannable (ie, ships but not their modules or cargo can show up in results), but they won't be dropping assembled ships as loot


Will those ships show up as destroyed on the killmail? What about the contents and modules of those ships that also get destroyed? (Which is an important thing - if you're allowing players to pay out bounties to other players based on the destroyed value.)
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#138 - 2012-11-30 17:20:41 UTC
One thing I've noticed from testing on Buckingham is that while one can drag modules from the cargohold to an empty module slot without opening the fitting window, it can't be done if the item is in the fleet hangar. Is there a possibility that this will be addressed? Having to open the fitting window when swapping capital-sized mods is tedious.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
The Slayer
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#139 - 2012-11-30 17:23:46 UTC
Blockade Runner would have made a much more sensible choice for the unscannable bonus imo.

Also I am not sure I like where the changes to scanning and plastic wrapping is going, the following quote "We recognize the need for secure hauling in the current environment" is especially troubling. There are already several methods of secure hauling, you introducing more just means the idiots who don't know how to use them get away with their stupidity instead of learning about the harsh realities of a game like EVE. Please, no more hand holding.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#140 - 2012-11-30 17:24:12 UTC
SwissChris1 wrote:
"Blockade Runners are being updated to be immune to cargo scanners, and as such will always show up as empty on scans"


My issue with that is that:

- Blockade runners were already pretty good with their cloaking ability, fast align times, and tissue-paper tank.

- DSTs are still basically useless, because of warp bubbles and infinity-point HICs.

What's probably going to happen in the real world is that people will pop uncloaked B/Rs on the off-chance that they're carrying something valuable. The orca didn't have that issue because of the effort required to pop an orca. B/Rs, with their tiny tank, don't have that protection.

Flying a B/R will now require that you make 100% use of the cloak, insta-undock bookmarks, etc.

DSTs might have been the better choice for an unscannable cargo hold.