Jita Park Speakers Corner

Listen to Tippia. She knows what she's talking about.

People were not whining about goons untill they started the ice war and the boot CSM posts started soon after. So yea, I do.

Personally, this CSM have pushed to get many problems I have had with eve for years and given that the vast bulk are now getting fixed I would say successfull CSM, will vote for them again.

yes but we didn't manage the deluge of goons :argh: post until we butchered over a thousand miners like swine

CSM 6's 0.0 'monotheism' came about mostly as a response to the reverse situation in CSM 5, except that 0.0 responded by getting out the vote, not screeching to Hilmar that the voting process was unfair and that we needed some form of positive discrimination to give seats to less popular candidates.


I don't think this can work, simply because CSMs are human players rather than spaceship characters. If I have a highsec alt and a 0.0 alt and I run for CSM, which 'constituency' am I? Mittani currently spends most of his playing time killing ice miners in Gallente space, does that make him a highsec candidate? What if a 'highsec' character runs for CSM and his corp then joins a nullsec alliance? What if a nullsec candidate has their space invaded and they get evicted and flee to lowsec or wormspace?

Well as you've probably noticed I'm not exactly that empathic about people whining about CSM and not voting - I do despise the section of the community that can't be bothered to vote and then says CSM doesn't represent them. But. There is a problem in that Nullsec alliances are simply better organized at conjuring bloc votes to get their candidates in and while you can leave it to tooth and claw and say "screw highsec if they can't get decent candidates and vote" I guess the reality of it is that highsec players tend to be more casual and less inclined to full engagement with the community.



I guess you'd choose which kind of seat you wanted to contest at the time you entered the race - alongside registering your rl name and address and details etc you choose which kind of seat you were going for. Mittani would be free to run for a highsec seat but maybe only highsec players get to vote in that constituancy ? (who knows, I really don't have any specific proposal here)

But something probably does need to be done to ensure more variety in future CSMs - I think none of us really benefit from the monotheistic ones for a couple of reasons -> 1. they do miss important issues (as this one managed to miss NeX) and 2. it does become easier for CCP to ignore a particular CSM when they are armed by the whines of the community saying its unrepresentative of most players.

Well said there sir... chairman of CSM
Yeah.... maby CCP need a new way to comunicate with playerbase

I think that there's a better chance of highsec getting themselves better organised this time around now that everyone has seen that the CSM can have a substantial impact on how CCP operates, and in the light of the refocusing on Eve that's now taking place there's likely to be more on the table for the CSM to actually fight over.

0.0 players are inherently better able to get out the vote because of the nature of 0.0 existance, but then there's more highseccers out there to grab votes from. There's an analogy about small groups of well organised players versus "disorganised blobbing noobs" in there somewhere.


Really, as long as NeX stays vanity only then its a non-issue. You can say its the thin end of the wedge if you like, but even the hint of going to pay-to-win over the summer was enough to get the jita riots rolling, thousands of accounts unsubscribing and Eve dragged through the mud on pretty much every gaming news website out there. I doubt our new-and-improved spaceship-focused CCP has any desire to go through all that again.

As for CCP ignoring unrepresentative CSMs, CCP had no problem ignoring issues raised by previous CSM lineups that were much more 'equally' divided - see the hilariously long issue backlog for details. As I said earlier, this is a point about social interaction rather than the CSM - the way that you get things done with CCP is by being able to convincingly articulate your points to them as one human being to another, not by waving a equal opportunities badge around.

And really, I have my doubts about how much good a "representative" CSM could agree on to get done seeing as there's every chance that you'd end up with 2 'nerf supercaps' guys, 2 'don't nerf supercaps, nerf blobs' guys, 3 highseccers who just want level 4 missions and veldspar mining to be buffed, and 2 guys running on a platform of 'oppose everything that goons suggest because they're mean and want to destroy eve'. Seems to me that CCP would find it much easier to ignore a divided CSM and just do whatever the hell they thought of than it would be with something like CSM6 which has shown a largely united front.

A lot of people are worried the world is going to end in 2012, doesn't mean they're not all morons.

Forcing some kind of playstyle equality in CSM elections is only really being pushed by people who know they won't get elected any other way. The fact of the matter is most of the people who are engaged enough with the game to make a good CSM have at least some stake in 0.0. Not to mention where do you draw the lines when you're dividing constituencies? Sure the large alliance player deserves a representative but the guy who just logs in to fulfil his breast engorgement fantasies in the character editor probably doesn't.

What it comes down to is the CSM doesn't represent you, and it doesn't represent me. It represents the players of Eve and should be trying to do what is best for everyone collectively, not everyone individually. Sometimes things you don't like have to happen for the greater good. If you can't get your head around that then congratulations, you have the mental age of a spoiled, petulant child.

The main problem with the current CSM is that its way too bisaed to one style of play. anyone that challenges that style basically gets the opinion that the delightful Rhaegor stormborn gave us amongst many others :- "0.0 makes Eve. All you empire chumps are worthless."... riiiight....
So were does a good proportion of industry and commerce take place?

Also, take a look at the current CSM especially its loudest members... 4-5 of them come from the same power bloc alone! Surely this is open to abuse as a result in some way or another?

I know what some of you are saying when you say that high seccers should have voted more/better... but have you ever tried to organise them? high sec life is very very different from 0.0 mainly because in high sec there alot more fractured. Ive operated in systems with over 50+ people from as many corps with little to no communication going on with them. They don't belong to a massive alliance or coalition were loyalty more than sense wavers votes for specific people within there own power bloc because that serves there best interest rather than somone who could think in the best interest of EVE as a whole.

I'm interested to see what CCP want to do in regards to the CSM. As long as the EVE player base doesnt lose its ability to communicate with CCP and get there point across without moaning too much then it could well be a good thing indeed!

Don't people think that changing the rules after one example is ridiculous reactionism?

So we finally see that the CSM can be a useful political tool, and instead of running some proper campaigns next time based on this new awareness, we want to neuter it back into obscurity? Is this really the best way to get the hisec voice heard?

If you guarantee hisec seats, then those hisec seats will be filled by people who sailed into the position because they had no real need to run a proper campaign and really get a majority of hisec players mobilized, heard, and represented. You're not talking about protecting a minority here, you're talking about reserving space for a huge majority who can't even be bothered to articulate their wants, and we suddenly think that forcing three seats will mean their voice gets heard?

You change things in this world through effort; just changing rules never guarantees the outcome you want. It's childish thinking. If the world worked that way we would just order everyone to be nice to each other, obviously this doesn't work that way.

Before we go neutering the csm back into obscurity, let's see if we can't get some proper hisec candidates to step up and run a campaign that actually does inspire their base and capture their sentiments. It's ultimately their race to lose, as they could fill every spot if they actually cared.

I'm honestly considering running on a hisec platform just to frame the issue and get people competing with me for hisec votes on an effective level.