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Great Article about Being Female and Gaming

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Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-11-29 22:49:13 UTC
Chribba wrote:
We need more female gamers to even the testosterone out.

/c


Reality check.

Women are more cutthroat and vindictive and by far the more deadly of the sex's.
The trade off is generally they are smaller in RL then men.
That disadvantage is removed in video games.

An entirely women run alliance, ummm null-sec should prey they never see one.


EVERYBODY KNOWS
Mupdadoodidda Bix Nood
Doomheim
#62 - 2012-11-29 22:51:15 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
Chribba wrote:
We need more female gamers to even the testosterone out.

/c


Reality check.

Women are more cutthroat and vindictive and by far the more deadly of the sex's.
The trade off is generally they are smaller in RL then men.
That disadvantage is removed in video games.

An entirely women run alliance, ummm null-sec should prey they never see one.




Yes, an alliance like that would collapse to infighting within days.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#63 - 2012-11-29 22:53:42 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
Meryl SinGarda wrote:
Demolishar wrote:
Meryl SinGarda wrote:

I get the feeling that you're here to cause an argument based around beliefs that you really believe are true, when in the real world, they are not. There are a lot of people like this on the internet. We usually call them trolls.


I understand the first part of your argument is known as "denial" and the second is "ad hominem".


See, you're trolling. If you could be so kind as to neatly list everything you believe is wrong, I would be more than happy to school you (as I once did on Transgender issues), unless the rest of the rational thinkers would be inclined to do so.


You're assuming you're right from the start. I actually feel that there's more positive discrimination towards females in this game than negative.


Welp, your feelings are screwed up pointing directly towards Trolololo Land.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
YoYo NickyYo
Doomheim
#64 - 2012-11-29 22:54:37 UTC  |  Edited by: YoYo NickyYo
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Here is an article that hit it on the head for me awhile back:

http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2012/04/ministry-of-love-affair.html

"One of my last memories in LAWN was sitting in my alpha Maelstrom waiting for a fleet to begin when an actual human female had the temerity to say something to the FC on the Goon comms we were on. There was a three or four second delay, and then the comms from at least 60 or 70 Goon pilots opened and what poured fourth was a chorus of monkey-like howling, grunting, and moaning that went on for at least 20 seconds. I don't care if it was meant in jest or not, it was surreal... animalistic."



LOL, very true. I can remember being in a Bobby Atlas fleet, we had a full fleet 250 +, A female speaks up......it took a good minute or two to get the kids under control, was so sad it was funny. Shocked

The worst part is some of them could not let go of the fact a woman was there, they kept hosing comm discipline trying to make a date with the girl. She showed good humor about it, but didn't last long after that. I have no idea how many personal convos she got, but it was probably quite a bit worse than the public chatter.

You'd think a lot of Eve players have never seen a girl, much less touched one, are things really that bad out there?

I am not, nor will I ever be...Nicky Yo.... The question you should ask is.....When will they release the NICKY!
Demolishar
United Aggression
#65 - 2012-11-29 22:56:10 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


So you still think that women can't do some things as well as a guy. The only thing I can think of is women (most) are not built for PowerLifting, but that's about it. And that is not necessary for survivial in society anyway.


It's very situational. You can't argue that there's no difference at all between the sexes or this thread would not have reason to exist.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#66 - 2012-11-29 22:56:38 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Demolishar wrote:
This subject always causes butthurt and is not worth discussing as noone has reasonable opinions or arguments.


We wouldn't care about a Troll's Criteria for 'reasonable' anyway...........


Reasonable assumes lack of bias. I base my arguments on personal observation rather than opinions and feelings. You should try it rather than just resorting to insults and denial.



Where did you make your observations ? The Planet of Chauvanism ?

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Demolishar
United Aggression
#67 - 2012-11-29 22:57:37 UTC
YoYo NickyYo wrote:

LOL, very true. I can remember being in a Bobby Atlas fleet, we had a full fleet 250 +, A female speaks up......it took a good minute or two to get the kids under control, was so sad it was funny. Shocked

The worst part is some of them could not let go of the fact a woman was there, they kept hosing comm discipline trying to make a date with the girl. She showed good humor about it, but didn't last long after that. I have no idea how many personal convos she got, but it was probably quite a bit worse than the public chatter.

You'd think a lot of Eve players have never seen a girl, much less touched one, are things really that bad out there?


I'd class this as positive discrimination. That sort of thing can easily be turned to "worship" which can then be exploited for monetary gain. Case in point that one time Garmon "fell in love" with Mintchip and gave her 190 billion isk. Would never have happened if she was a dude.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#68 - 2012-11-29 23:00:08 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
YoYo NickyYo wrote:

LOL, very true. I can remember being in a Bobby Atlas fleet, we had a full fleet 250 +, A female speaks up......it took a good minute or two to get the kids under control, was so sad it was funny. Shocked

The worst part is some of them could not let go of the fact a woman was there, they kept hosing comm discipline trying to make a date with the girl. She showed good humor about it, but didn't last long after that. I have no idea how many personal convos she got, but it was probably quite a bit worse than the public chatter.

You'd think a lot of Eve players have never seen a girl, much less touched one, are things really that bad out there?


I'd class this as positive discrimination. That sort of thing can easily be turned to "worship" which can then be exploited for monetary gain. Case in point that one time Garmon "fell in love" with Mintchip and gave her 190 billion isk. Would never have happened if she was a dude.



So we are back in the Middle Ages when women were 'worshipped' and put 'on a pedestal' of chivalry ? My God.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Demolishar
United Aggression
#69 - 2012-11-29 23:02:05 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Demolishar wrote:
YoYo NickyYo wrote:

LOL, very true. I can remember being in a Bobby Atlas fleet, we had a full fleet 250 +, A female speaks up......it took a good minute or two to get the kids under control, was so sad it was funny. Shocked

The worst part is some of them could not let go of the fact a woman was there, they kept hosing comm discipline trying to make a date with the girl. She showed good humor about it, but didn't last long after that. I have no idea how many personal convos she got, but it was probably quite a bit worse than the public chatter.

You'd think a lot of Eve players have never seen a girl, much less touched one, are things really that bad out there?


I'd class this as positive discrimination. That sort of thing can easily be turned to "worship" which can then be exploited for monetary gain. Case in point that one time Garmon "fell in love" with Mintchip and gave her 190 billion isk. Would never have happened if she was a dude.



So we are back in the Middle Ages when women were 'worshipped' and put 'on a pedestal' of chivalry ? My God.


Yes, that's exactly what I infer from the above quote. And like I said, it can be exploited to the huge advantage of the woman involved! If I had that sort of opportunity handed to me I sure as hell wouldn't be complaining!
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#70 - 2012-11-29 23:11:08 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Demolishar wrote:
YoYo NickyYo wrote:

LOL, very true. I can remember being in a Bobby Atlas fleet, we had a full fleet 250 +, A female speaks up......it took a good minute or two to get the kids under control, was so sad it was funny. Shocked

The worst part is some of them could not let go of the fact a woman was there, they kept hosing comm discipline trying to make a date with the girl. She showed good humor about it, but didn't last long after that. I have no idea how many personal convos she got, but it was probably quite a bit worse than the public chatter.

You'd think a lot of Eve players have never seen a girl, much less touched one, are things really that bad out there?


I'd class this as positive discrimination. That sort of thing can easily be turned to "worship" which can then be exploited for monetary gain. Case in point that one time Garmon "fell in love" with Mintchip and gave her 190 billion isk. Would never have happened if she was a dude.



So we are back in the Middle Ages when women were 'worshipped' and put 'on a pedestal' of chivalry ? My God.


Yes, that's exactly what I infer from the above quote. And like I said, it can be exploited to the huge advantage of the woman involved! If I had that sort of opportunity handed to me I sure as hell wouldn't be complaining!


So, let me get this straight--inequality should be promoted for personal gain? I guess this sort of thing goes both ways.
Demolishar
United Aggression
#71 - 2012-11-29 23:16:01 UTC
Meryl SinGarda wrote:

I guess this sort of thing goes both ways.


Yes, and I'll leave it there.
Moe Doobie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2012-11-29 23:18:58 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I
I think there are fewer women in the gaming industry as devs because of several reasons. One is that there are fewer women working than men. More women are housewives and mothers staying home then there would be of men staying home while the wife works. I would suspect that game development or programming in general would be less of an appealing job to a woman than a man. Men tend to have a larger interest in technology and information systems stuff than women.



There is not one correct sentence in this entire paragraph.

That's a part of the problem. Misinformed men.

As a gay man, maybe I'm just more sympathetic to the obstacles the women face.



I don't think that it's because you're a gay man - it's probably just because you pay more attention. Or maybe the fact that you aren't a misogynistic dumbass stuck in the 1950s.

Though, to be fair, I don't really think most men are that misogynistic - just clueless about the fact that other people might not like being virtually harassed just because they have boobs.



Dude I've witnessed just as many women USE their gender to gain goodies in games. Schmooze with the guildmaster, start drama between two nerds, etc. So don't give me this "total victim" crap please. I find that women who want to be left alone don't go making thread posts about them being a woman.
Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#73 - 2012-11-29 23:23:41 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
I want to take a moment to point out that it should not be a internet forum or an article on a website that defines a persons gender. It should be the person themselves that defines their own gender.

Gender is not a tangible thing that you can just pick up and put in a box or on a shelf somewhere. Gender is not something easily measured, like most forums of identity it is specific to a person and part of a larger spectrum of expression.

Spectrum being the key word here.

Quote:

We are going to ignore the oddity of the TGoE channel’s creation being proposed by someone who is not a member of the channel’s intended demographic audience. ↩


This statement is bad m'kay.

I don't need an article telling me how I should identify. It should not be considered an "oddity" that I proposed the formation of TGoE.


Someone pinch me, I agree with a Xenuria post. This has GOT to be a dream.

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#74 - 2012-11-29 23:29:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
EVE is a highly competitive game against other people. This lends itself to catering to highly male attitudes.

The issue is that highly competitive females on par with the male competitive attitudes in EVE aren't interested in video games in general. They are interested in more tangible competitive rewards (better job, better partner, better children, better athletes, etc). That can be taken as a positive aspect.

So when women get turned off from EVE, it's because boys are pretty flexible in how they get their intake of testosterone driven competition. The women that are interested in EVE are basically in the boys locker room.

I don't really see this changing, and it would require women to basically rally around and form female only organizations, just like there is a female football, female hockey, female, etc leagues.

Do we consider those sports sexist for generally not accepting women? Or vice versa, should we consider female-only sports to be sexist for not accepting male competitors?

Where I am.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#75 - 2012-11-29 23:30:45 UTC
Moe Doobie wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I
I think there are fewer women in the gaming industry as devs because of several reasons. One is that there are fewer women working than men. More women are housewives and mothers staying home then there would be of men staying home while the wife works. I would suspect that game development or programming in general would be less of an appealing job to a woman than a man. Men tend to have a larger interest in technology and information systems stuff than women.



There is not one correct sentence in this entire paragraph.

That's a part of the problem. Misinformed men.

As a gay man, maybe I'm just more sympathetic to the obstacles the women face.



I don't think that it's because you're a gay man - it's probably just because you pay more attention. Or maybe the fact that you aren't a misogynistic dumbass stuck in the 1950s.

Though, to be fair, I don't really think most men are that misogynistic - just clueless about the fact that other people might not like being virtually harassed just because they have boobs.



Dude I've witnessed just as many women USE their gender to gain goodies in games. Schmooze with the guildmaster, start drama between two nerds, etc. So don't give me this "total victim" crap please. I find that women who want to be left alone don't go making thread posts about them being a woman.


This is actually just as egregious as male chauvenism. This has probably happened once in the decade of EVE.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#76 - 2012-11-29 23:32:45 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
EVE is a highly competitive game against other people. This lends itself to catering to highly male attitudes.

The issue is that highly competitive females on par with the male competitive attitudes in EVE aren't interested in video games in general. They are interested in more tangible competitive rewards (better job, better partner, better children, better athletes, etc). That can be taken as a positive aspect.

So when women get turned off from EVE, it's because boys are pretty flexible in how they get their intake of testosterone driven competition. The women that are interested in EVE are basically in the boys locker room.

I don't really see this changing, and it would require women to basically rally around and form female only organizations, just like there is a female football, female hockey, female, etc leagues.

Do we consider those sports sexist for generally not accepting women? Or vice versa, should we consider female-only sports to be sexist for not accepting male competitors?



Those are all social institutions formed mostly over a hundred years ago.

Eve is a baby at 10. IT did not have to develop the same ingrained attitudes. The men put it there.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Seven Noctis
#77 - 2012-11-29 23:55:57 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Muestereate wrote:
I'm kinda of the position that men and women tend toward different activities. They are of course able to do both but maybe not as well.


You blew it RIGHT there with that.


Quote:
So you still think that women can't do some things as well as a guy. The only thing I can think of is women (most) are not built for PowerLifting, but that's about it. And that is not necessary for survivial in society anyway.


Surely you agree that, in general, men and women are inclined toward different things. Sure, there will be some overlaps, but still quite a few differences. And I don't suppose you'll be surprised when I say that people tend to be better at things they are more inclined to do; because they will be more motivated to do them, possibly have more experience with them, etc.

I have reread the original quote a couple of times and that is all I get from it. I see no bias in the statements, nor do I see either men or women being singled out in any way.

Perhaps, as someone who seeks more understanding from others, you should try to offer more of the same in return. Instead, you seem to attempt to mock or ridicule any position you do not immediately agree with, without even reflecting on what was actually said. You'll get no sympathy for that. And it will definitely not help your cause.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#78 - 2012-11-30 00:17:06 UTC
All extremes, it's not new, does not concern only females so why the fuss is this about?
Do you see beaten guys/male sexism victims/TV series about guys guys loosing all their life efforts and kids for funky stuff every one around here already saw, lived it, or knows someone in his situation, but schhht, we must not talk about it it's too complicated and doesn't deserve attention.

This kind of stuff happens in whatever education level and it's unisex, meaning it's a global society problem no one around can solve or will ever want to solve because $$$$$$$$.
Strangely enough in all countries we often see major leaders sent to justice because of behaviors like this (Bill Clinton, DSK but the list can be really long), but also a lot profiting of their condition to scam money from people, which is even more disgusting but tears on tv and shows seems to please a certain number of stupid people (far too much)

Education is not the key for everything, so many leaders having this kind of deviant behavior proves it, but certainly helps.
Look around you, look at your TV and realize the society you live in: everyone has to be tall, nice looking, extremely sexy dressed yada ya
Now women say it differently than guys but I knew enough situations were there were a couple of those talking in between them and even a couple of very drunk guys cant be that naughty, but schhht, this must not be said, it would brake the dream where girls do not poo pee fart or put their finger in their nose.

It's a very silly way to deal with some problem than make it always extreme and generalizations out of it, it's bad and often people doing this have more to win ($$$) doing it than all the pawns without brains or education unable to realize where the barrier is in between real stuff and exageration to get some attention for whatever reason.

Sooner than latter you better be woman gay or animal than a men, because being so means you're obviously ********, violent, murderer, sexist, alcoholic, junky, deviant, dirty and a lot more funky stuff.

I'm not saying this shouldn't be discussed but rather say this isn't the place for it because we can all have different experiences or sensibilities, there are as much strange people from one side than the other, make a fuss about one or the other it's only good to sell paper, tv shows and solves nothing, specially in some space ship gaming forum.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2012-11-30 01:27:42 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Here is an article that hit it on the head for me awhile back:

http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2012/04/ministry-of-love-affair.html

"One of my last memories in LAWN was sitting in my alpha Maelstrom waiting for a fleet to begin when an actual human female had the temerity to say something to the FC on the Goon comms we were on. There was a three or four second delay, and then the comms from at least 60 or 70 Goon pilots opened and what poured fourth was a chorus of monkey-like howling, grunting, and moaning that went on for at least 20 seconds. I don't care if it was meant in jest or not, it was surreal... animalistic."

That's never been my experience. Women don't tend to speak up often on Goon comms, whether that's because there are less of them or because they feel intimidated I can't say, but whenever I've heard women speak up on comms they've been treated with respect.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2012-11-30 01:30:11 UTC
Not denying that such a thing could have happened, I wouldn't be surprised, but my point is it's not as much of the norm as you might thing.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)