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"Flying" a ship

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Author
Veda Idama
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-11-29 09:47:05 UTC
Greetings

I've often heard players mention how they 'like' flying certain ships. Especially on podcasts

I just wanted to know what this means and what the practical differences between ships in game are. Especially ships of the same class (i.e frigates, destroyers etc...)

For example, If i theoretically take 2 ships and fit them with the same modules, what are the differences between them in use?

Is it aesthetics? Playing with the configuration options for a particular ship? Factoring bonuses into your setup?

I guess what I'm really thinking is do you start from a ship and find modules to fit it based on bonuses? Or do you find a set of modules you like and find a ship that accommodates them?

Hope that makes some sense Ugh

Veda

[i]dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraḿ yauvanaḿ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati[/i]

Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-11-29 10:09:00 UTC
Veda Idama wrote:
Greetings

I've often heard players mention how they 'like' flying certain ships. Especially on podcasts

I just wanted to know what this means and what the practical differences between ships in game are. Especially ships of the same class (i.e frigates, destroyers etc...)

For example, If i theoretically take 2 ships and fit them with the same modules, what are the differences between them in use?

Is it aesthetics? Playing with the configuration options for a particular ship? Factoring bonuses into your setup?

I guess what I'm really thinking is do you start from a ship and find modules to fit it based on bonuses? Or do you find a set of modules you like and find a ship that accommodates them?

Hope that makes some sense Ugh

Veda


You start by wanting to do something and then you look for a way to make it happen. You start by trying some of the better theoretical options you've found and tweak your selection after you've got some actual experience in flying that ship/setup. What you end up liking is usually the ship, that allows you to perform that thing you started with, but also provides the best actual flying experience. What that "best experience" is varies by person, so it's not just something objective. It's more of a feeling you get when the ombination of all the variable just click for you.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-11-29 10:10:36 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Veda Idama wrote:
Greetings

I've often heard players mention how they 'like' flying certain ships. Especially on podcasts

I just wanted to know what this means and what the practical differences between ships in game are. Especially ships of the same class (i.e frigates, destroyers etc...)

For example, If i theoretically take 2 ships and fit them with the same modules, what are the differences between them in use?

Is it aesthetics? Playing with the configuration options for a particular ship? Factoring bonuses into your setup?

I guess what I'm really thinking is do you start from a ship and find modules to fit it based on bonuses? Or do you find a set of modules you like and find a ship that accommodates them?

Hope that makes some sense Ugh

Veda


1.)

First of all different classes of ships have different mechanics they work best in.

A Frigate is small and nimble where as a battleship has a much bigger tank but is slow and clumsy.

So trying to fly a frigate as a battleship or a battleship as a frigate will end in tears.

Some people in EVE really like the frigate gameplay, others the battleship gameplay.

2.)

Most (if not all) more experienced players will fit a ship according to the bonuses (few exceptions are there as always).

And a lot of players just know which ship is best for a certain job/situation and pick that ship (with the fit that comes with it) for that particular job/situation.

So basically it can go both ways:

Say you need to be a tackler. This means you have to at least fit tackle modules to it, you then look at which ship you should use. This can be a ship that has bonuses to tackling (range for instance - Arazu for instance) or something that is small and nimble but doesn't cost to much (Hero Tackle mode - T1 frigates).

The other way around is that you have a certain ship and you build the fit to benefit the bonuses of that particular ship. This way you maximize the modules that you fit on the ship.

Another example: Scout. This usually means you pick something that is fast (so you can stay ahead of the fleet) and cloaky (so you won't be killed cause a dead scout isn't a good scout). Another benefit of being cloaky and fast moving, you can get into positions so the fleet can warp to you (at range, so they don't decloak you) so they land in the fleet's sweet spot for damage on the opposite team.

3.)

When people say they like to fly ship "x". This usually means that ship "x" lets them play the gameplay they like most.

People who like small fast roaming PvP fleets usually like to fly smaller ships like Frigate / Destroyers (T1 or T2).
People who like slower ships in slug fest fleet PvP usually like the more tanky and bigger ships like Battlecruisers / Battleships.
People who like the stealthy gameplay usually like ships that support that like Stealth bombers and Recons.

For the very specific ship they use (like people who say they like the Wolf particular (Minmatar Assault Frigate - T2), that in the end is a very personal preference. They like the frigate style of EVE and within that they like the set up of the Wolf and it's possibilities (Fitting slots, bonuses, attributes, etc.)

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

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Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Veda Idama
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-11-29 10:12:36 UTC
Quote:

It's more of a feeling you get when the combination of all the variable just click for you.


Would you say those variable depend on the ship, modules, both or something else?

[i]dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraḿ yauvanaḿ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati[/i]

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-11-29 10:15:05 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Veda Idama wrote:
Quote:

It's more of a feeling you get when the combination of all the variable just click for you.


Would you say those variable depend on the ship, modules, both or something else?


Well mainly both but MOST importantly, when it lets you play the game you like to play.

EDIT:

A ship with modules that make it a great ship isn't going to be "I like to fly it" when it isn't something you would like to fly.

A battleship that is perfectly fitted for a slug fest fleet engagement will be very good, but if it's flown by someone who doesn't like big ship PvP but likes frigate PvP he will not say "I like to fly that ship".


e.g. The "I like to fly ship 'x'" is more a personal opinion then that it is that Ship 'x' with fit 'y' is good.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Veda Idama
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-11-29 10:23:40 UTC
J'Poll wrote:

When people say they like to fly ship "x". This usually means that ship "x" lets them play the gameplay they like most.

People who like small fast roaming PvP fleets usually like to fly smaller ships like Frigate / Destroyers (T1 or T2).
People who like slower ships in slug fest fleet PvP usually like the more tanky and bigger ships like Battlecruisers / Battleships.
People who like the stealthy gameplay usually like ships that support that like Stealth bombers and Recons.

For the very specific ship they use (like people who say they like the Wolf particular (Minmatar Assault Frigate - T2), that in the end is a very personal preference. They like the frigate style of EVE and within that they like the set up of the Wolf and it's possibilities (Fitting slots, bonuses, attributes, etc.)


That's exactly what I was looking for, thank you.

With that in mind, I'm wondering if the ships matter much outside of visuals. Are they just a means to have your preferred setup and facilitate your style of gameplay?

[i]dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraḿ yauvanaḿ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati[/i]

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-11-29 10:28:19 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Veda Idama wrote:
J'Poll wrote:

When people say they like to fly ship "x". This usually means that ship "x" lets them play the gameplay they like most.

People who like small fast roaming PvP fleets usually like to fly smaller ships like Frigate / Destroyers (T1 or T2).
People who like slower ships in slug fest fleet PvP usually like the more tanky and bigger ships like Battlecruisers / Battleships.
People who like the stealthy gameplay usually like ships that support that like Stealth bombers and Recons.

For the very specific ship they use (like people who say they like the Wolf particular (Minmatar Assault Frigate - T2), that in the end is a very personal preference. They like the frigate style of EVE and within that they like the set up of the Wolf and it's possibilities (Fitting slots, bonuses, attributes, etc.)


That's exactly what I was looking for, thank you.

With that in mind, I'm wondering if the ships matter much outside of visuals. Are they just a means to have your preferred setup and facilitate your style of gameplay?


Spot on.

Ships are just tools in EVE to play the game in the way you like and to reach the goals you have set yourself.

The same counts with ISK, it's just a tool to help you get to where you want to go.

Ships them self can be a goal you can work towards, but usually it's a sub-goal as when you reach them you likely want to use that particular ship for something else.

EDIT:

Visuals don't even matter to me personally.

Usually I play EVE in a very zoomed out way and use other stuff to actually play with (Overview, chats, broadcasts, HUD + shortcuts, etc). Wouldn't care less if that ship had a really nice visual or was just made in the shape of a sphere (which basically according to the underlying mechanic it is, all ships are spheres - also why ships have a Signature RADIUS)

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Veda Idama
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-11-29 11:36:44 UTC
J'Poll wrote:


Ships them self can be a goal you can work towards, but usually it's a sub-goal as when you reach them you likely want to use that particular ship for something else.



So just to be clear, if a person has a goal of say, wanting to be a tackler in a fleet, would they work towards being able to fly a particular ship and get modules that would let them do that?

If so, what happens when they achieve that? Are there 'levels' of tackling ships and modules or does the player just learn to use that setup?

If that is their goal, do they need other ships at all?

[i]dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraḿ yauvanaḿ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati[/i]

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-11-29 11:47:34 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Veda Idama wrote:
J'Poll wrote:


Ships them self can be a goal you can work towards, but usually it's a sub-goal as when you reach them you likely want to use that particular ship for something else.



So just to be clear, if a person has a goal of say, wanting to be a tackler in a fleet, would they work towards being able to fly a particular ship and get modules that would let them do that?

If so, what happens when they achieve that? Are there 'levels' of tackling ships and modules or does the player just learn to use that setup?

If that is their goal, do they need other ships at all?



Well basically yes.

They would aim to be a tackler.

And there are certain levels in it, from simple T1 frigate Hero Tackle up to T2 ships with tackle bonuses.

And usually besides tackling they also do aim for some other stuff. But they will always like to fly tackle ships and it will be their preferred ship

And yes, they likely need other ships besides tackle ships. Even if it's just a ship do make money with by running missions/mine/ratting/etc.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-11-29 11:58:32 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
To give you an example:

I run multiple accounts, each geared to a different type of ship.

Amarr pilot:

I trained it so it can run AHACs, Amarr Battleships and the Guardian (Amarr logi).

Minmatar pilot:

Trained into some T2 Frigs (Bomber and Assault Frigate), Tornado and Tempest/Maelstrom. And goal with it is to be Scimitar (Minmatar logi).

Caldari pilot:

Trained into Stealth Bomber, T2 Ewar frigate, Drake (god forbid but most alliance used Drake fleets), ECM ships (Falcon, Rook and Scorpion) and the Basilisk (Caldari logi).

This training way was done so I could join most of the possible fleets I had entry to, from small fast fleets to big sluggish fleets.

And though I like all of the ships they can fly, the one I really like would be the stealth bombers because of the play style that comes with it (planning, waiting for right targets etc).

The others, they are nice to have the ability to join those fleets, and although it's nice to join those it's not 100% my play style

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-11-29 12:52:16 UTC
Ships within the same class also have subtle differences when it comes to speed, agility, handling, toughness, and the like. It varies from ship to ship, but the rough rule of thumb is that Minmatar ships are fast, agile, and fragile; Amarr ships are somewhat slower and more sluggish, but tougher; Caldari ships are slower but more agile, with good defenses; and Gallente trade agility for speed and armor. So a Slasher can outrun a Condor, but the Condor can probably win if the fight turns into a slugging match.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt

Merouk Baas
#12 - 2012-11-29 15:16:08 UTC
"Flying a ship" varies by role: interceptor/tackler vs. scout/cloaky ship vs. large/slow DPS vs. logistics/healing, etc.

For DPS / no tricks combat, there's also a difference between short-range vs. long range combat, some people prefer ships that get in close to do their damage, others prefer to snipe from a distance.

Some ships are just favorites; they have the right mix of high/med/low slots and weapon bonuses to be really nice for certain things. Their equivalents from other races just don't come together quite the same way. Either you're missing a med slot for a critical webifier for PVP, or the fact that it's armor-tanked makes it more of a bother to PVE with, shrug.

EVE works by multiplying in bonuses to one thing until it's almost overpowered. If you're going for fast interception, then you pile in all the speed modules, implants, skills that you can, T2/officer/rare stuff, way beyond reasonable, and so of course you want the fastest interceptor, and there is 1 fastest interceptor. "Slightly slower but more tanky" doesn't cut it. This is how EVE conditions us to find favorites and only fly those ships.
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#13 - 2012-11-29 16:27:55 UTC
Veda Idama wrote:

For example, If i theoretically take 2 ships and fit them with the same modules, what are the differences between them in use?


Aside from the obvious (ship bonuses as listed in info pane)?

Different base fitting stats (powergrid, CPU) - directly restricts what modules you can equip and what you can't

Different Capacitor/Recharge - changes what modules work best, and how long you can use those modules under various conditions (for instance, on a ship with bad capacitor you'd prefer missiles, which don't use it, and passive shield)

Different base speed and maneuverability - exactly what it sounds like. Heavier ships can't be bumped, lighter ships go faster/turn faster

Different drone bay/Bandwidth - changes what drones you can use/carry, and whether you can have multiple sets

Different slot layouts and hardpoints - changes how many offensive modules you can have, and which of them are turrets and which missiles. More low slots mean you can fit more armor resistance or armor HP modules, or more speed/maneuverability modules. More mid slots mean you can fit more shield tank modules, or propulsion/cc modules.

Also some are prettier.


In summary, generally speaking you _can't_ "take 2 ships and fit them with the same modules", without laming both ships to a ridiculous degree. At minimum you'd have to leave slots open on both ships to do so.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#14 - 2012-11-29 17:45:08 UTC
I like flying Amarr shuttles...

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#15 - 2012-11-29 18:32:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
OP,

There are 5 different weapon systems with basically two different ranges each. Then there are the four races of ships, each slightly different than the other, e.g. Caldari tend to emphasize range, Minmatar tend to emphasize speed & agility, etc..

N.B. projectiles are considered universal, and are often used on ships without a weapon system bonus (having a damage bonus usually dictates the weapon system choice, where a range or tracking bonus is sometimes ignored).

So even if you take the same ship, you can fit it many different ways, including for different roles.

How do you know what to fit? Look at the ship bonuses, slots & hardpoints, and stats (CPU, power grid, capacitor, resists, shield, armor, structure, max velocity, warp velocity, agility, calibration points, etc.), then consider what role you want the ship to have, and then whether it is a good / poor / bad choice for that role.

Generally a given ship will lend itself to a few specific roles, but that doesn't mean you can't capitalize on the element of surprise by using a ship for a completely unorthodox role.

ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
I like flying Amarr shuttles...

I prefer Minmatar shuttles, as they look awesome tom me. Amarr shuttles have too many blinking lights on them, which scream to me, "I'M OVER HERE! SHOOT ME!"
San Fransisco
Silver Falcon Survey
#16 - 2012-11-29 18:33:22 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
I like flying Amarr shuttles...


Oh really... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiR5Q72kT1U
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-11-29 19:38:37 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
I like flying Amarr shuttles...


I like to fly the Enigma or the CONCORD Swat Battleship.

However CCP doesn't like me when I joyride their ships.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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Kimimaro Yoga
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-11-30 02:44:30 UTC
One thing to consider is that in Eve, your ship + fit is kinda like a class in other MMOs. It makes you good at certain things, not good at others. Obviously you can switch ships anytime you want to, which is one of the reasons Eve is superior to those other MMOs. If you really like playing a certain style though, you'll definitely aim towards certain shiptypes.

The other is that within a shiptype, focus still varies considerably. For instance, two of the logistics cruisers (repair ships) have bonuses for armor, two for shields. And within each subtype, one ship has higher output but at the cost of needing a "cap buddy" in order to function. The buddy system works well in small groups, but tends to become unworkable in larger fleets. So which one you want to fly in depends on your particular circumstances.

More generally it goes back to things like fast/slow, good tank/bad tank, close/far combat range, etc. Basically it's what tradeoffs you're most comfortable with. Finally, consider that high SP players can fly many different ships, so it's not like you're locked into one category at all.

Now recruiting: http://dogfacedesign.com/index.php/Recruiting-Posters/recruiting-poster-patr3

Tasage Tivuri
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-11-30 08:41:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tasage Tivuri
Veda Idama wrote:
Greetings

I've often heard players mention how they 'like' flying certain ships. Especially on podcasts

I just wanted to know what this means and what the practical differences between ships in game are. Especially ships of the same class (i.e frigates, destroyers etc...)

For example, If i theoretically take 2 ships and fit them with the same modules, what are the differences between them in use?

Is it aesthetics? Playing with the configuration options for a particular ship? Factoring bonuses into your setup?

I guess what I'm really thinking is do you start from a ship and find modules to fit it based on bonuses? Or do you find a set of modules you like and find a ship that accommodates them?

Hope that makes some sense Ugh

Veda


You can browse all the different ships in the market, plenty of time to do that as your first few hours and possibly days will be mostly spent on training basic skills to unlock some of more important T1 ships and modules you'll need later on.

Based on your chosen faction, you might want to stick to Gallente ships to start with, and later on you can cross-train ships and modules from the other factions, as those skill books will cost you quite a bit of wealth as a new player.

Focus on blasters, drones, armor repair, afterburners and maybe missiles, these are the staples of most, if not all, Gallente ships.

Visually, each ship follows the cultural style of their respective factions but they're also designed to reflect their faction's preferred warfare doctrine and weapon of choice. You'll find that Gallente ships provide bonuses to the modules I've mentioned, and these are meant to exploit the weaknesses and as a counter to the strengths of the other factions, and vice versa.
Doddy
Excidium.
#20 - 2012-11-30 10:07:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Doddy
Basically you put together a combination of ship/modules/rigs/implants and most importantly your skills to create a fit that does what you want in your style. When people talk of liking the way a ship flies it is in relation to what they want to do, so for pvp it will be often a roaming set up for solo or small gang combat they are talking about. If they are doing PvE it will probably be the set up they are most comfortable missioning with.

Note that just because someone else likes a fit doesn't mean you will. If you hate kiting a kiting fit wont work for you whatever. If you don't have good multitasking skills fits that require lots of cap management/range management and overloading all the at the same time will be a nightmare.
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