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[Winter] Support Frigates

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androch
LitlCorp
#481 - 2012-11-04 15:17:29 UTC
frigs with reppers... what a worthless idea
Executus Primus
Tyrannis Enterprises
#482 - 2012-11-10 15:19:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Executus Primus
Not exactly well balanced, the bantam is worse in any configuration than the burst.

Lets assume a standard fit:

[NEW Burst, New Setup 1]
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Damage Control II

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

NEW Small S95a Partial Shield Transporter
NEW Small S95a Partial Shield Transporter
NEW Small S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I

cap stable at 41% without mwd on, goes 2463 m/s, EHP 5553, sig 40


[NEW Bantam, New Setup 1]
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Damage Control II

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II

NEW Small S95a Partial Shield Transporter
NEW Small S95a Partial Shield Transporter
NEW Small S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I

comes closest:

not cap stable last 31m without mwd, goes 2151m/s, ehp 5400 and has 40sig (due to meta shield externder, other config would be higher)

I tried the config the bantam in many ways, but in all cases it comes out worse than the burst, even with "special fits".
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#483 - 2012-11-10 16:05:46 UTC
It has a fuckton of sensorstrength though, compared to the Burst.
Executus Primus
Tyrannis Enterprises
#484 - 2012-11-10 16:50:33 UTC
Sheynan wrote:
It has a fuckton of sensorstrength though, compared to the Burst.


ecm resistance is arguable not that important with frig fleets where your power projection is distributed. Unless all people start to fly griffins.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#485 - 2012-11-10 19:29:20 UTC
Executus Primus wrote:
Sheynan wrote:
It has a fuckton of sensorstrength though, compared to the Burst.


ecm resistance is arguable not that important with frig fleets where your power projection is distributed. Unless all people start to fly griffins.

Not necessarily. Strengths on frigate scale are so small that ECM on unbonused ships are frequently successful and then you are of course under the constant threat of dishonour drones being deployed against you ... many/most frigate pilots in FW took to the strength implants like it was the second coming for just that reason, just no other viable way (read: not enough slots in the world) to buffer against ECM on that scale.
Executus Primus
Tyrannis Enterprises
#486 - 2012-11-10 19:58:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Executus Primus
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Executus Primus wrote:
Sheynan wrote:
It has a fuckton of sensorstrength though, compared to the Burst.


ecm resistance is arguable not that important with frig fleets where your power projection is distributed. Unless all people start to fly griffins.

Not necessarily. Strengths on frigate scale are so small that ECM on unbonused ships are frequently successful and then you are of course under the constant threat of dishonour drones being deployed against you ... many/most frigate pilots in FW took to the strength implants like it was the second coming for just that reason, just no other viable way (read: not enough slots in the world) to buffer against ECM on that scale.



I don't quite agree that a 15 sstr compared to a 11,3 sstr is going to be that huge of an advantage given the other drawbacks of the bantam:

a.) due to the lowslot compared to the midslot on the bantam, the burst has better cap regen.
b.) The burst has higher pg, the bantam has a higher cpu. As i see it, the cpu is wasted on both frigs, it would make sense IF you wanted to fit an MASB, but that makes no sense - if you fly with logi frigs you want buffer, because in that frig scenario, alpha/burst dps is your main enemy.

The stats are worse on the bantam (since i dont see much use for cpu, feel free to come up with a fit that uses it...), and the slot layout is worse considering its primary function (repping, for that you need energy). I dont see a way to use that extra mid slot of the bantam for anything else than a cap recharger, without compromising its rep ability. And that module is just plain worse than a power relay.
Sunglasses At Midnight
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#487 - 2012-11-12 00:47:34 UTC
Executus Primus wrote:
Not exactly well balanced, the bantam is worse in any configuration than the burst.

Lets assume a standard fit:

[NEW Burst, New Setup 1]
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Damage Control II

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

NEW Small S95a Partial Shield Transporter
NEW Small S95a Partial Shield Transporter
NEW Small S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I

cap stable at 41% without mwd on, goes 2463 m/s, EHP 5553, sig 40


[NEW Bantam, New Setup 1]
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Damage Control II

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II

NEW Small S95a Partial Shield Transporter
NEW Small S95a Partial Shield Transporter
NEW Small S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I

comes closest:

not cap stable last 31m without mwd, goes 2151m/s, ehp 5400 and has 40sig (due to meta shield externder, other config would be higher)

I tried the config the bantam in many ways, but in all cases it comes out worse than the burst, even with "special fits".



The Bantam has more sensor strength. Also, even with these new logistics frigates, not many small gang frigate battles last 31 minutes... so the Bantam guy probably won't cap out, just because the difference because lasting 31 minutes and being stable at 41% probably isn't that big. Yes, the speed advantage is nice, but the Bantam is more resistant to damps.
Holy One
Privat Party
#488 - 2012-11-12 01:39:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Holy One
Sooo many stats to digest. SO many changes coming in winter. Its going to be pretty crazy out there for a few weeks. Pirate

:)
androch
LitlCorp
#489 - 2012-11-12 10:41:57 UTC
frigs with repping mods... am i the only one tho sees this as completely useless?
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#490 - 2012-11-14 15:31:25 UTC
androch wrote:
frigs with repping mods... am i the only one tho sees this as completely useless?


Yes
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#491 - 2012-11-14 20:35:53 UTC
Terranid Meester wrote:
androch wrote:
frigs with repping mods... am i the only one tho sees this as completely useless?


Yes






"A burst fitted with deadspace shield transporters and backed up with Tengu boosts reps as much as a standard Scimitar"

*flies away*
Erim Solfara
House of Solfara
#492 - 2012-11-14 21:03:05 UTC
MisterNick wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Don't you care about the fact that the Tormentor used to be the mining frigate so it breaks the pattern of mining frigates becoming logi frigates?
Not really, no


This is why CCP devs best devs Lol

Besides, they wanted to make the tormentor into a minigeddon, and it does really look like the front of the geddon P


The inquisitor also looks like the front of a geddon, that's not really an argument.

It's such a simple fix, and the vast majority of people that are expressing an opinion about the tormentor/inquisitor in this thread are in favour of swapping the models to keep things consistent.

I also happen to hate the tormentor model based on the thruster placing meaning it'd just spin like a tomahawk through space, that bugs me.
Mr John Smith
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#493 - 2012-11-29 06:04:28 UTC
Question; Why do the Amarr and Caldari variants have an extra low and medium slot compared to Gallente and Matari, respectively?

I looked over the stats and there doesn't seem to be anything really compensating for this. At frigate level a single slot can make a huge difference to the ships overall performance, was this taken into consideration?
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#494 - 2012-11-29 11:25:42 UTC
Mr John Smith wrote:
Question; Why do the Amarr and Caldari variants have an extra low and medium slot compared to Gallente and Matari, respectively?

I looked over the stats and there doesn't seem to be anything really compensating for this. At frigate level a single slot can make a huge difference to the ships overall performance, was this taken into consideration?

They don't, they all have 9 slots...
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
#495 - 2012-11-29 14:32:06 UTC
While a fun idea, after playing with fittings and cap on Buckingham, i'm not sure these are going to be the 'game' changers some people think they will be.

They might help you win a 2 vs 1 fight, but then again, 2 frigates vs 1 is normally going to win anyway.

As for force multiplier, I'm not convinced at all that bringing these instead of more DPS is going to have any realistic out come of any fights above these numbers.

The shield transfer amount is far too small, and the capacitor is a nightmare to manage.

Fitting it with a MWD and even resists and tiny tiny tiny buffer is doable, but again, no capacitor to maintain that for any real use.

Limited range, tiny buffer and poor resists, and other frigates capable of coming in at 3000 m/s and doing 200-300 DPS on your ass, mean these ships will pop like bubble gum.

"The game is mostly played by men - 97%. But 40% of them play as women... so thats fine."  - CCP t0rfifrans 
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#496 - 2012-11-30 23:34:10 UTC
I have not tried these out. However, I'm against more logistics ships in game.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#497 - 2012-12-01 21:52:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Garr Earthbender
I'm for it. I don't want to fly T2 100+ mill logi every day, but I don't mind losing a ship that costs a total of 10 mill ( or much less for frigates) every day.

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#498 - 2012-12-04 10:38:29 UTC
Unsticking, let's make some space for future threads.