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Proteus, let's fix her.
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Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-11-29 01:47:25 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Of all of the T2 vs T3 cruiser arguments, Gallente IMHO has it the best overall balanced.


right, cos an astarte and deimos are just like a proteus right?
i have no issue with T3s being better than T2s but saying that T2 gallente ships in any way compare to the proteus is plain silly.

realistically, i won't be surprised when the prot gets a nerf when CCP get around to breaking, er, i mean 'fixing', T3s.

There is no Bob.

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Derath Ellecon
Lotek Academy
#22 - 2012-11-29 02:06:06 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Of all of the T2 vs T3 cruiser arguments, Gallente IMHO has it the best overall balanced.


right, cos an astarte and deimos are just like a proteus right?
i have no issue with T3s being better than T2s but saying that T2 gallente ships in any way compare to the proteus is plain silly.

realistically, i won't be surprised when the prot gets a nerf when CCP get around to breaking, er, i mean 'fixing', T3s.



Jack, I almost always agree with you, but you missed the point here. I was talking in terms of CCP's arguments about T2 vs T3. Specifically where T2's are supposed to excel in their specialty and T3's are more generalized.

To that end the gallente line is better off than some of the other races. Drone based Assault ship, Ishtar does it better. Blaster boat, Deimos could use a little love, but otherwise I think its ok. And yes I have no issue with the Proteus having the superior tank. It should given the cost (isk and SP wise).

Caldari on the other hand does not fare so well in this regard, as has been talked about plenty. But IMO it's not the Tengu's fault, but rather the **** poor T2 HAC's.

Pretty much all of the other T2 variants are generally better than their T3 fits (Logi, Recon, etc).
Laurence Pinkitin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-11-29 02:28:51 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Well, as the title implies this forum is about fixing the Proteus in a couple ways. The first is fixing it's subsystems so it's more on par with the other T3s, the second is the look of the ship.

To start I'd say the Proteus needs to get rid of the Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors, and have the Fuel Catalyst replace it. The other 3 have this subsystem, and I don't see why the Proteus shouldn't too.. This will help in PvE as well as PvP. The next issue is the Drone Synthesis Projector; why is the drone bandwidth 75 instead on 125? The Gila, and Ishtar both have 125 bandwidth, I don't see why this subsystem shouldn't be 125 too. I think with these two improvements done the Proteus would be a much better ship and be more with the other T3s

The other issue with the Proteus, is it's so damn ugly haha. I mean the Legion, Tengu, and Loki all can look either bad or look good depending on the subsystems you put on. The Proteus on the other hand just always looks bad, I don't understand this at all. I fully believe it needs a full redesign to the ship and all the subsystems.

Let me know what you think, and of any other improvements the Proteus could use, or any other of the T3s. The only other thing I think would help the Legion and Proteus, and even Loki I guess is a new armor repair amplifier module, but I'm not sure if that would overpower armor or just help it often.

~Thadd


Ill be able to fly the proteus in 2 weeks so i cant speak on the PVE side of things but if its as bad as people make it out to be you'll probably have more luck asking for a small 2.5%-5% bonus to damage per level for rails than trample over the beloved Ishtar.

I agree on the redesign. It looks like it was probably rushed. Many configs on the other ships can be passed off as a real Armarr, Cal and Min ship. Not a single proteus config can imo. Its green and has rounded edges but it doesnt look like a Gal boat to me.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#24 - 2012-11-29 02:44:35 UTC
All tech3 cruisers should be fixed in one go, no need to limit balancing to just one ship. Their ability to fit overtank for free should be removed - at the moment that's the largest single issue out there.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-11-29 02:53:40 UTC
op is a noob proteus has **** face dps and hands down the best cov ops prober t3. 500k ehp proteus is not unreachable.. the thing can get ridiculous.. nothing wrong with the proteus, w-space warfare seems to think differently OP
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-11-29 11:00:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Whiite
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Mike Whiite wrote:
therm Tank of the Tengu is it's second weakest as a base usualy the weakest overall becauce most caldari pilots patch up the EM hole.

Aside of all the things you try to point and show where other ships are better, you seem to surpass all the points where the Proteus is better than it's counter parts.

The Proteus does most damage and the thoughest tank you use it to sneak up at people tackle them and beat the crap out of them, it does that better than the Tengu or the Loki.



Ok, it's easy to see you know little of Tengus and Caldari. Therm isn't it's second lowest resist, Explo is. Therm/Kin are it's highest resist in shields even with the EM patched up. It doesn't do better DPS or range then a Tengu, I HAM Tengu can do 850-900DPS at ranges over 20km. Loki can do 600--700DPS at around the same ranges and web it's prey.


I stand corrected, what means I didn't take to much notice on my Tengu (as said it speed tanks most of the time) as or knowing little fo Caldari, Therm is the usualy second weakest resistance.



Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
erm, base ship resist +skills WITHOUT specific +resist sub, you fit it with 1 DCU 1 Em+Invuln hardeners it's explo the secon d hole after Em, thermal and kin are the highest native resists on this ship and these get way above 85% when the others are under 80%.

So sry, you did a huge mistake here and I can't really understand the point you're trying to make.
All T3's are more or less good in specific areas however you have Loki/Tengu being quite versatile and thus preferred over ships requiring the same top skills and isk effort in fits but still being exclusive as game play and offering a smaller window of engagements or opportunities.

Proteus could use of a lot of tweaks to become more useful in other circumstances than in wh's with bonus making those better, other circumstances than heavy tackle in fleets surrounded by half a dozen of guardians and the over exciting game play running around cloack with a 2+B cloack fit just to spot lone missioners/anom runners, this looks as exciting as mining, but some dudes like it.

Simple answer: train them all, don't bother with wow like balances and pick the best at the moment for whatever you intend to do with.



for second time I stand corrected for the Therm resistance mistake, I took the racial resistance lay-out for granted.

As what Point I'm trying to make, ever see the DPS on a Cloaky Tengu? It cant do what the Proteus can on that aera, Tengu doesn't have a drone bay.


So you want speed and Range, don't use a Proteus, while people don't use a tengu to sneak op on you, or exploire.

Yes they are diferent, thank CCP or that, the races would ne very dull if they wheren't.

And I totaly agree with you that you should train others when you want the ull scope.

But the is no need to fix the Proteus, because it isn't broken, i't's sweet spot might not be your way of playing.
Wolvun
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-11-29 11:10:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Wolvun
It is seriously not broken at all, back off and don't touch the look either.

The proteus feels the most balanced to me, it can do great dps cloaky and non cloaky fit, it has a great tank and point range.

I also have two tengu toons that are getting the nerf bat, it saddens me but i can see why they are nerfing missiles.

The one T3 i think needs looking at is the Legion. I mean really i only fly mine now as a nuet legion, it really is crap at all other roles in comparison. Have you ever made a cloaky Legion that you were happy with? Hell i have never made a non cloaky DPS legion that i have been happy with....... Jump back into the Proteus and do real damage.

Were you high when you came up with this junk OP?


EDIT: Hmm maybe i need a Loki toon next....
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#28 - 2012-11-29 15:08:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe
Fon Revedhort wrote:
All tech3 cruisers should be fixed in one go, no need to limit balancing to just one ship. Their ability to fit overtank for free should be removed - at the moment that's the largest single issue out there.


Agreed Fon.

The likelyhood of t3 in hac mode receiving an all around nerf, specifically to their tanks is very high at this point. Expect the tengu's ******** dps subsystems to get a swift kick in the nuts as well.

Derath Ellecon wrote:

Of all of the T2 vs T3 cruiser arguments, Gallente IMHO has it the best overall balanced.


Not even close... Amarr has the most balanced hac, command ship, and t3 lineup by far, and the balance still sucks.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#29 - 2012-11-30 02:11:30 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
The other issue with the Proteus, is it's so damn ugly haha.

I called mine Mr. Hankey. Problem solved.
DR BiCarbonate
Doomriders.
#30 - 2012-11-30 04:44:32 UTC
Lol wut, all t3 have their place.
out of all t3 i see legion the least. with tengu the most, loki's second and prot third.

L2fit t3

Loki is probably my favorite ship right next to cyclone/sleip. if you have the skills you can tank it any way you want.
need a fast solo ship? how about a vaga on steriods?
dont like shield tanks? 1600mm plate it with web bonus sub and sit out at range while you laugh at the dmg and your gang takes a care of it
thats just a few ways you can fit a loki, same with all the other t3.

only thing that sucks about prot is information warfare. nobody uses it, lol, i dont think ive ever seen a boosting proteus

-carb
Isaiah Harms
Absolute Order XVIII
WE FOWM W0LTA
#31 - 2012-12-05 11:36:32 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Well, as the title implies this forum is about fixing the Proteus in a couple ways. The first is fixing it's subsystems so it's more on par with the other T3s, the second is the look of the ship.

To start I'd say the Proteus needs to get rid of the Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors, and have the Fuel Catalyst replace it. The other 3 have this subsystem, and I don't see why the Proteus shouldn't too.. This will help in PvE as well as PvP. The next issue is the Drone Synthesis Projector; why is the drone bandwidth 75 instead on 125? The Gila, and Ishtar both have 125 bandwidth, I don't see why this subsystem shouldn't be 125 too. I think with these two improvements done the Proteus would be a much better ship and be more with the other T3s

The other issue with the Proteus, is it's so damn ugly haha. I mean the Legion, Tengu, and Loki all can look either bad or look good depending on the subsystems you put on. The Proteus on the other hand just always looks bad, I don't understand this at all. I fully believe it needs a full redesign to the ship and all the subsystems.

Let me know what you think, and of any other improvements the Proteus could use, or any other of the T3s. The only other thing I think would help the Legion and Proteus, and even Loki I guess is a new armor repair amplifier module, but I'm not sure if that would overpower armor or just help it often.

~Thadd



Agreed. OP needs shot.

I got a Proteus. Who else?

P.S. In RL we have to put up with idiots and be nice. EVE has another way of educating them.
Govind
Parity Labs
#32 - 2012-12-05 19:43:12 UTC
Proteus ugly? I'm here looking for an excuse to fly one just for how slick its various configurations look! Anything from a hammerhead shark to some sort of futuristic motorcycle!
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