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In need of a new freighter tier.
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Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#141 - 2012-11-28 22:58:13 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
i'm still waiting for a way 5 or 6 logi could save me from 8-9 talos doing 3000 DPS each while the logi can only repair 500.

even with ECM, the ganker need to shoot first. and ther's often 10 of them.. how do you counter that? with 10 ECM?

So there's 10 people spending their time and their money to gank something which needs to carry around 2b to reliably break even. What's wrong with that? It's 10 people spending their time in one out of two systems, providing 0.12% of the kills in all of EVE pr 24 hours (actually it's probably less, since I don't think I counted more than a 20 hour period today), why are these 0.12% of kills so special they need to be looked at so bad by CCP?



I need to quit mixing the 2 threads, and I think you did too, since they are closely related.

The thread here is about new choice of freighters, and has nothing to do with ganking per say. if we get new toys, they will still be gankable (probably too easely, but that's another debate) and nothing will change that.

the point that deviated this thread (yet again) is the break even value. and we can make another thread about that if you want. but stop derailling this one please.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#142 - 2012-11-28 23:16:32 UTC
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
i'm still waiting for a way 5 or 6 logi could save me from 8-9 talos doing 3000 DPS each while the logi can only repair 500.

even with ECM, the ganker need to shoot first. and ther's often 10 of them.. how do you counter that? with 10 ECM?



i did show u a bit of the math to show how it would work, but if ur going to be that ignorant then screw it. dnt do anything and continue to do what u do the way u do.

and btw, no talos does 3000dps. when ur this stubborn and narrow minded, im amazed uve lasted in eve this long.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2012-11-28 23:19:01 UTC
So far, during november (i.e. 28 days), there's been killed around 265800 ships. That means that out of all the ships blown up in eve, in november, 0,085779% were freighters in hisec, 0,021445% were freighters in lowsec and 0,004515% were freighters in null. 0,001129% were freighters in wormholes, but I guess those don't count. vOv

The most deadly day for freighters, when looking at an average of 9500 kills/day during 1-28th of november, was november 23rd, with 0.17895% of the kills that day, where a whole 17 freighters were killed in hisec. Oh dear, this is such a huge problem that it must be looked at at once.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#144 - 2012-11-28 23:48:32 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
i'm still waiting for a way 5 or 6 logi could save me from 8-9 talos doing 3000 DPS each while the logi can only repair 500.

even with ECM, the ganker need to shoot first. and ther's often 10 of them.. how do you counter that? with 10 ECM?



i did show u a bit of the math to show how it would work, but if ur going to be that ignorant then screw it. dnt do anything and continue to do what u do the way u do.

and btw, no talos does 3000dps. when ur this stubborn and narrow minded, im amazed uve lasted in eve this long.


http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15293523

so, response time in a .5 system is 12 seconds.

that first guy managed 36k in 12 seconds.

how many DPS is that?

you showed me the math, but you can't rep more then 7.5k HP on the shield anyway, since it's the maximum shield any freighter can have!

Lord Zim: which part of my post in this page did you not get?

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#145 - 2012-11-29 00:01:44 UTC
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
Lord Zim: which part of my post in this page did you not get?

You're claiming there's a huge need for a new freighter because the ganking is out of control. I'm pointing out just how small a fraction of the ships killed monthly and daily it takes before you're whining about how it's out of control.

Don't like the stats? Tough noogies.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#146 - 2012-11-29 00:08:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/CONCORD_Details

19 seconds...tho its not 100% consistent. and eve uni points to 19 seconds until the 'first felt action' of concord...so things can go on a little longer.

[Talos, Talos Ganker]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L

Medium Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Medium Hybrid Collision Accelerator I


Hobgoblin II x5

it appears a talos like this can do 1640 dps and 6389 alpha...thats still not 3000dps and like ive said, u dnt have to rep faster than the incoming dps to save the freighter, just make it last long enough for concord to arrive

edit- this fit can manage 39k damage in 20 seconds, which is close to the kill u put up.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#147 - 2012-11-29 00:08:47 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
Lord Zim: which part of my post in this page did you not get?

You're claiming there's a huge need for a new freighter because the ganking is out of control. I'm pointing out just how small a fraction of the ships killed monthly and daily it takes before you're whining about how it's out of control.

Don't like the stats? Tough noogies.


what? where?

I pointed out that there is now a new BC that give the gankers a new edge.

then I asked if we, the poor freighters (haha), could get a new toy too.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#148 - 2012-11-29 00:10:27 UTC
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
Lord Zim: which part of my post in this page did you not get?

You're claiming there's a huge need for a new freighter because the ganking is out of control. I'm pointing out just how small a fraction of the ships killed monthly and daily it takes before you're whining about how it's out of control.

Don't like the stats? Tough noogies.


what? where?

I pointed out that there is now a new BC that give the gankers a new edge.

then I asked if we, the poor freighters (haha), could get a new toy too.



u dnt need a new toy. u need logi

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#149 - 2012-11-29 00:13:31 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/CONCORD_Details

19 seconds...tho its not 100% consistent. and eve uni points to 19 seconds until the 'first felt action' of concord...so things can go on a little longer.
it appears a talos like this can do 1640 dps and 6389 alpha...thats still not 3000dps and like ive said, u dnt have to rep faster than the incoming dps to save the freighter, just make it last long enough for concord to arrive


in which case the 2-3 spares will get you on the next gates...
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#150 - 2012-11-29 00:17:02 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:

u dnt need a new toy. u need logi


hey, let's test this on the test server, and see how it goes.

I keep telling you guys, it'll make no difference. even if it did, that's not why we want new toys. it's not to avoid the gankers. they will always find a way.

but give us something to challenge them a little.

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2012-11-29 00:20:19 UTC
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
what? where?

I pointed out that there is now a new BC that give the gankers a new edge.

What you said was that there was "a big raise in freighter ganking".

Incidentally, there's no direct correlation between the new BCs and freighters being ganked. Freighters weren't suddenly ganked because the new BCs were introduced.

Red Frog Rufen wrote:
then I asked if we, the poor freighters (haha), could get a new toy too.

As a way to "counter those kills", yes.

You're looking at 2 systems which are "dangerous". So what's wrong with you adapting ever so slightly beyond "hey ccp give us a ship with more HP or we'll quit" by, oh I dunno, bringing logis, ecm, webs, hauling the stuff across those 2 systems in smaller pieces and then go on your merry AFK way etc?

Red Frog Rufen wrote:
in which case the 2-3 spares will get you on the next gates...

Dock up, rep, continue hauling?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2012-11-29 00:22:33 UTC
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:

u dnt need a new toy. u need logi


hey, let's test this on the test server, and see how it goes.

I keep telling you guys, it'll make no difference. even if it did, that's not why we want new toys. it's not to avoid the gankers. they will always find a way.

but give us something to challenge them a little.

Yes, making them use a few more people is really challenging them. Roll

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#153 - 2012-11-29 00:31:24 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
what? where?

I pointed out that there is now a new BC that give the gankers a new edge.

What you said was that there was "a big raise in freighter ganking".

Incidentally, there's no direct correlation between the new BCs and freighters being ganked. Freighters weren't suddenly ganked because the new BCs were introduced.

Red Frog Rufen wrote:
then I asked if we, the poor freighters (haha), could get a new toy too.

As a way to "counter those kills", yes.

You're looking at 2 systems which are "dangerous". So what's wrong with you adapting ever so slightly beyond "hey ccp give us a ship with more HP or we'll quit" by, oh I dunno, bringing logis, ecm, webs, hauling the stuff across those 2 systems in smaller pieces and then go on your merry AFK way etc?

Red Frog Rufen wrote:
in which case the 2-3 spares will get you on the next gates...

Dock up, rep, continue hauling?



for your first affirmation, befaore t3 BC, there was about 1 or 2 frieghter gank per month.

for your second affirmation, of course that could help.

for your third, where do you dock in Niaja?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#154 - 2012-11-29 00:38:17 UTC
Red Frog Rufen wrote:


for your first affirmation, befaore t3 BC, there was about 1 or 2 frieghter gank per month.

for your second affirmation, of course that could help.

for your third, where do you dock in Niaja?


wheres the stats on ganking last year?

dock in next system. gankers will not regroup in the time it takes to warp to a system and then station, considering they cant undock for 15 minutes without being a global target.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#155 - 2012-11-29 00:53:49 UTC
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#156 - 2012-11-29 01:02:40 UTC
im not seeing a particular rise from those months to this month.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#157 - 2012-11-29 01:12:58 UTC
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
for your first affirmation, befaore t3 BC, there was about 1 or 2 frieghter gank per month.

Horseshit.

October: 3 the 9th. 1 the 15th. 4 the 16th. 3 the 23rd. 1 the 29th. 5 the 30th. 1 the 31st.
November: 1 the 5th. 1 the 13th. 1 the 18th. 1 the 19th. 1 the 21st. 2 the 26th. 3 the 27th.

This pace continues until august the 11th. When was crucible (and by extension the tier 3 BCs) released? What is the actual reason there's any sort of increase whatsoever in freighter ganks?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#158 - 2012-11-29 01:20:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
I tried to ask Lord Zim what he believe the maximum value a freighter should carry is but i never got an answer

o/
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#159 - 2012-11-29 01:29:25 UTC
i answered. 500mil or not much higher.

whatever the cost it takes to gank a freighter, then thats half of what u can take before the gankers can expect to break even.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2012-11-29 01:46:53 UTC
Souisa wrote:
I tried to ask Lord Zim what he believe the maximum value a freighter should carry is but i never got an answer

It's been answered multiple times. Statistically, half the cargo drops, take what you need to spend to gank it and double it, and you've got a bare minimum for ganking a freighter. Since this is a bare minimum for a statistical break-even. This is not a sustainable pricepoint. A more realistic for-profit price point is 3-4x the cost of the ships+modules needed to gank the freighter.

This doesn't stop people from ganking you just because, since that's how eve is.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat