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** HILMAR - Remove the CSM Now...**

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Kazanir
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#121 - 2011-10-21 14:09:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kazanir
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
fixed that for you - its quite a serious thread m8. But as usual the goon squad make a mokery of anything thats remotely serious about this game..


So far Goons:

1. Have put two people on the CSM.
2. Have used the CSM to loudly demand that CCP put more resources towards EVE.
3. Have actually been effective in helping get CCP to change their tune towards EVE.
4. Have been dicks to people on public forums quite a lot of the time.

I personally am not prone to trolling, shitposting, or being a **** to people on forums. I'm a notoriously serious poster. But by any measure, the CSM this year has been damn effective, and if the price I have to pay for that is Vile Rat and Mittani being a **** to people like you on the forums, it is a price I am extremely willing to pay.

I think a lot of people -- even a lot of people who are no fans of Goonswarm politically -- will agree with me.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#122 - 2011-10-21 14:09:12 UTC
Quote:
Eurogamer: So you can confirm that the situation with CCP today is only different from that of six months ago because of the recent issues with the Incarna expansion?

Hilmar Pétursson: Absolutely. Incarna was the final point of realisation that we were trying to do too much at the same time. We were creating avatar tech for two games, integrating in a single code branch with teams around the world all contributing. It was a very ambitious thing and we didn't do it well enough. We're taking that in and addressing that. We've learned a lot, and we will certainly do everything we can to avoid those mistakes again.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-10-21-eurogamer-interviews-ccps-hilmar-petursson-interview?page=2


Reading parts of the article make me wonder just how out of touch hilmar is. I could quote and break down more of it.


BUT i can say that the CSM is not the issue here after reading the interview.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Mr R4nd0m
Doomheim
#123 - 2011-10-21 14:11:53 UTC
Kazanir wrote:
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
fixed that for you - its quite a serious thread m8. But as usual the goon squad make a mokery of anything thats remotely serious about this game..


So far Goons:

1. Have put two people on the CSM.
2. Have used the CSM to loudly demand that CCP put more resources towards EVE.
3. Have actually been effective in helping get CCP to change their tune towards EVE.
4. Have been dicks to people on public forums quite a lot of the time.

I personally am not prone to trolling, shitposting, or being a **** to people on forums. I'm a notoriously serious poster. But by any measure, the CSM this year has been damn effective, and if the price I have to pay for that is Vile Rat and Mittani being a **** to people like you on the forums, it is a price I am extremely willing to pay.

I think a lot of people -- even a lot of people who are no fans of Goonswarm politically -- will agree with me.


I think you will also find ALOT dont.. Anyway everyone is entitiled to their own opinion and this is what discussions are for.
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#124 - 2011-10-21 14:12:07 UTC
Vastek Non wrote:
I find Vile Rats sudden interest in High Sec life a bit surprising, however am trying to be optimistic rather than my initial cynicism.



Honestly my interest in highsec is because I've had several people point out (correctly) that we haven't done a good enough job bringing attention to this gameplay style and I agree. I'm going to make an effort and do what I can.

Also I'm a one term candidate and have posted publicly, before I even got elected, that I was only going to run for one term. I don't have to care about 'pandering' accusations at all thankfully.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#125 - 2011-10-21 14:14:27 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:



BUT i can say that the CSM is not the issue here after reading the interview.



Your right the current CSM isn't. However the CSM Process could be changed to have delegate positions for different aspects of the game, high, low, null. etc. So the CSM isn't completely biased towards a certain play style. This is the issue, not the current CSM or Goons. Sadly the OP is too butthurt over goons to realize this.






















I await getting reported for personal attack.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#126 - 2011-10-21 14:16:26 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:



BUT i can say that the CSM is not the issue here after reading the interview.



Your right the current CSM isn't. However the CSM Process could be changed to have delegate positions for different aspects of the game, high, low, null. etc. So the CSM isn't completely biased towards a certain play style. This is the issue, not the current CSM or Goons. Sadly the OP is too butthurt over goons to realize this.


i look forward to this, and a suprising number of highsec characters that are certainly not 0.0 alts voting for Iraf Thalbierd as their highsec representative

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#127 - 2011-10-21 14:16:35 UTC
Yes, how dare the CSM push a certain play style that includes PVP (hybrids and assault ships scheduled to be fixed), industrial stuff (massive PI changes), reading (new font), massive battles (time dilation), and module use (t2 modules).

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2428

How DARE they change our game for the better with crap we've been complaining about from the beginning.

The cry of 'BUT THEY ARE GOONS!' does not mean we want to continue to play a terrible game. We'd rather play a better game.
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#128 - 2011-10-21 14:16:46 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
I don't like the Mittani, and I'm pretty sure from people copy pasting things to me that he doesn't like me either.


But he's worked pretty hard through every possible avenue (Media, direct contact, talking to players, radio speeches) to steer EVE back towards something that doesn't smell like a dying elk.

To deny that is pretty close minded and partial brain death may be responsible.

If you don't feel you got the representation you needed out of the CSM, there is literally nothing stopping you from creating a platform and running.

Its free.

Anybody can run, and the Nullsec population is dwarfed by the Empire population, if you get the word out, there is literally no way that any 0.0 group can stop you from becoming the CSM chair. Even if every Goon had 4 accounts and voted for their pick, if you got even 1/4 of the Empire population to vote for you, it would be a landslide.

Stop whining for CCP to do something for you, and go do it yourself. That's what EVE is all about, and always has been.


See, I don't like PL, because PL are our enemies, or something like that (And they probably feel the same way, I don't know, just a guess). But hey, if even him is claiming that a Goon (And not the average goon, the most goon of all goons) did something great, you've got to recognize that.

Empire dwellers (I mean, the 2/3 pubbies who come and ***** about how biased the CSM is toward nullsec entities) have votes too. They have alts too. Just like us. The thing is, that you have nullsec entities, organized, social groups (Like Goonswarm, AAA, the DRF, PL and so on), and then you have empire space peoples.

Sure, you have your 50 man corporation running lvl4s or even lvl5s, sure you do organize operations and such, it's just fine. But all in all, it's still a small group. Why ? Because empire space isn't competitive. Why ? Because there is no way to really compete. Why ? Hell if I know. But what does it brings us to ? Well, with no competition, there is no reason to have a group (Or at least, a big group, with much manpower). Why would you have a 1500 man alliance in empire ? What would you do with those guys ? You can wardec peoples, they'll just stay in a station. You can destroy poses (Pretty much the only thing you can do to a corporation who refuse to fight). You can run missions (Yeh, let's gather hundreds of peoples to run lvl 4s !)...

The leader of the 1500 dudes alliance will just stand up and say, we'll take a lowsec territory. Or, we will take some sovs in this area with the help of those guys. Or, we will support and backup those guys, because they want to be friends with us. Or something like that. Empire space doesn't and shouldn't support that. It's just not supposed to be like that. It's small scale because there is no reason for it to be something else.

No organization => No power in the CSM.

It's just like that, and it will probably stay like that.

Organizing empire pubbies is just...you can't do it. Lots and lots of pubbies just don't care about stuff, and they'll just keep doing lvl 4s until they get there ultimate missioning ship. You can't help it, it's just like that.

And then you have empire dwellers who actually cares about the CSM and all, but they are like 5% of the entire HS population. That means, they can't do crap about it.
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#129 - 2011-10-21 14:18:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Slade Trillgon
I am here to confirm that 'IT' had nothing to do with the massive hit CCP took to their wallet and everything to do with the CSM Roll

That is all I will contribute.


Slade
Signal11th
#130 - 2011-10-21 14:20:54 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Vastek Non wrote:
I find Vile Rats sudden interest in High Sec life a bit surprising, however am trying to be optimistic rather than my initial cynicism.



Honestly my interest in highsec is because I've had several people point out (correctly) that we haven't done a good enough job bringing attention to this gameplay style and I agree. I'm going to make an effort and do what I can.

Also I'm a one term candidate and have posted publicly, before I even got elected, that I was only going to run for one term. I don't have to care about 'pandering' accusations at all thankfully.



I do actually remember Vile Rat posting in another thread a while ago that he was looking to support High-Sec in matters of CSM'ness. Can't find the bloody thread.

Yes VR don;t faint I'm sticking up for you, not that you need it! just trying to be fair.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Mr Management
Anger Management
#131 - 2011-10-21 14:21:16 UTC
The CSM is broken. The game was better in CCP's hand.

When 5000 people can vote for their alliance leader who publically writes that he wants to break Eve
then the system is flawed.
Mr R4nd0m
Doomheim
#132 - 2011-10-21 14:22:08 UTC
Well I guess Hilmar as the same reservations and concerns as us 'non goons' do. The funny thing is, its only the goons coming in hear crying about it. What does that say? Whos butthurt?

Hilmar will make his own mind up. Hopefully he grows some balls and does the right thing. If he can fire his own staff he shouldmt have a problem doing this..

I think I have said my peace in this post. So ill leave you to discuss further without my intervention.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#133 - 2011-10-21 14:32:59 UTC
Mr Management wrote:
The CSM is broken. The game was better in CCP's hand.

When 5000 people can vote for their alliance leader who publically writes that he wants to break Eve
then the system is flawed.
No. It show that the system works. The "broken" part is that they only need 5,000 to get him the chair because the complainers can't stop complaining instead of activating and motivating an opposition.

That's a flaw in the opposition, not the system.
Jacob cirth
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2011-10-21 14:37:04 UTC
The problem with the CSM is they operate without the consent of the players. There was no option for "no CSM at all", and instead, a lot of people just clicked "abstain" or didn't bother to vote in the first place.
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#135 - 2011-10-21 14:37:49 UTC
Karadion wrote:
Ciar Meara wrote:
Karadion wrote:
"Goons this, goons that, goons everything, goons are ruining my "Walking in Station" experience! Give me my incarna, wah wah wah." Go play Second Life or in traffic.

At least the CSM had some influence in getting CCP to dump their stupid Vampire MMO and scale down Dust that both of would have never worked.


1: They didn't

2: The Mittani was anything but critical in his view towards incarna and MT

3: Vile Rat didn't even care about buying golden scorpions with Aurum

4: CSM was late jumping on the bandwagon and is now some are trying to claim victory while all they did was ride along.

1) Yes they were
2) Wrong
3) Yes he did
4) Wrong again.

All typical empire pubbie answers.


I'll enjoy proving you wrong on all those statements. But I have to dig out the relevant forum topics where Vile Rat being is usual charming self and states that he doesn't care about golden scorpions and insults everybody for hours until somebody explains him about what everybody is talking about (him being CSM we explain it slowly, because he truly is clueless) and he (eventually) flip flops. (Mittani stated it also but at least he was drunk in a bar in Iceland when he did)

The expansive posts, articles and twits of the Mittani saying its very good that MT is in the NeX/Incarna store because then it wouldn't impact FiS and it is a bold new plan yadayada etc. We all know the NeX was stillborn together with incarna cause without player driven content you can't actually DO anything while walking around. The teams working with WiS said exactly that a week or so ago. The Mittani even recanted and almost claimed he was wrong himself in one of his more recent articles showing that at least he has some sense.

The minutes you like to rever to where a sad, useless and nothing saying document that held nothing of interest. Showing once again what the CSM truly is good at. Offcourse you don't have to argue with actual arguments, you can just go and continue to "yes, sir" without actually looking at facts, It is just easier that way, isn't it?

I am not saying that A CSM isn't usefull I am saying that in this, only a select few had impact, and it was only by chance.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#136 - 2011-10-21 14:39:16 UTC
Mr Management wrote:
The CSM is broken. The game was better in CCP's hand.


Sure. More walking in a closet and more monocles. Go ahead.


When 5000 people can vote for their alliance leader who publically writes that he wants to break Eve
then the system is flawed.


Nope.

Check what's happening in real life. I'll take America as an exemple, despite how stupid that is.

Two entites. Democrats and Republicans.

Democrats ideas are stupidities, for Republicans.

Republicans ideas are stupidities, for Democrats.

If a Democrat wins the election because he had more votes, the republicans will yell at everyone something along the lines of "When peoples can vote for someone who publically says he wants to do that kind of things and that kind of things (Which are equals to self destruction, in the eyes of a republican), the system is flawed".

I'm sorry but that's it. One's terrorist is another one's freedom fighter, am I right ?

And damn it the CSM isn't all about the Mittani you know.

The current list is :

The Mittani (GSF)
Vile Rat (GSF)
UAxDeath (Legion of Death)
Seleene (PL)
Draco Llasa (Thundercats)
Trebor Daehwood (Dirt Nap Squad)
Meissa Anunthiel (Rooks and Kings)
Killer2 (Morsus Mihi)
White Tree (Elite space guild)

GSF don't hold the majority of the council. Actually, more like 1/3 of it. And that's if you want to believe that everyone in GSF follow and blindly love everything the Mittani says. Which is untrue, but hey, can't force you to believe something you don't want to believe into, right ?

Also, the one who wrote about how the fight between Country A and Country B is unbalanced because Country A has more peoples, well then Country B should try to find peoples to fight Country A with. You know, allies. If you don't have allies, get mercenaries to help you. If you don't have neither allies nor some spacemoney to pay mercenaries, well then why are you here in the first place ?

Also, the tools to fight the blob exist. Those are called bombers (Ask Morsus Mihi, they use those. PL does aswell). Or, they are called "kiting fleets". You know, Tengus, Munnins, that kind of things. PL knows about Tengus and how they can still win outnumbered. They had a number problem, they came up with a well thought-out solution.

Supercapitals en masse weren't counter-able. You can't kite, speed tank, sigtank, you can't jam them, you can't slow them down with webs, logistics or any kind of interdiction ships were blowed up to bits by Titans or endless hordes of drones and all fuckups were covered by the CTRLQ elite maneuver. That's why the supercapital nerf was needed.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#137 - 2011-10-21 14:40:49 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Jacob cirth wrote:
The problem with the CSM is they operate without the consent of the players. There was no option for "no CSM at all", and instead, a lot of people just clicked "abstain" or didn't bother to vote in the first place.


sure there is

you run as a candidate who promises to do nothing when elected

not our problem that not one of the thousands of you folks thought up the solution I spotted in seconds

Edit: Please keep it civil, thank you. CCP Phantom.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#138 - 2011-10-21 14:42:07 UTC
I will be that candidate, I am extremely lazy and will do nothing but jabber about worthless crap, vote for me

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Meeogi
Terminal Tackle
#139 - 2011-10-21 14:43:00 UTC
This has been the most effective CSM team in the history of the program.

Good job guys.
Vastek Non
State War Academy
Caldari State
#140 - 2011-10-21 15:01:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Vastek Non
Vile rat wrote:
Vastek Non wrote:
I find Vile Rats sudden interest in High Sec life a bit surprising, however am trying to be optimistic rather than my initial cynicism.



Honestly my interest in highsec is because I've had several people point out (correctly) that we haven't done a good enough job bringing attention to this gameplay style and I agree. I'm going to make an effort and do what I can.

Also I'm a one term candidate and have posted publicly, before I even got elected, that I was only going to run for one term. I don't have to care about 'pandering' accusations at all thankfully.


Ok, good to hear (the bit about paying attention to more than just your powerblock).

Honestly i'm mostly a HS player, but in reality we all know that massive sections of the game need looking at,mostly null to be honest. I have no problem with that and if you want to run for a second term and are looking out for the game, good luck to you.