EVE General Discussion

@ Johan, at least you make an effort with your English, your posts are much more readable than some of the meaningless and illiterate garbage posted by those who are native speakers.

I think WoW is an apt example of playerbase turnover.

WoW reached 10 million players with their first expansion, considered by many if not most to be the best era of WoW. You still had to travel, you still needed to group, you still needed to know where the dungeon was.

Then came their second expansion, Wrath of the Lich King. There was a mass exodus at the start as hardcore Classic players had already spent 4 - 6 months in Naxx, then after Ulduar we had a new dev team that could only muster basic encounters such as ToC. The real problem arose with the dungeon finder. Now you ddnt need a guild, didnt need to know anyone, ddnt need to care about your reputation. you queued as a nameless player that might as well be a mindless NPC and afked your way to victory. Gone was the need to CC, the game was dumbed down to the point that recruitment became a nightmare for my hardcore raid guild. it became a single player game overnight.

And what remained of the previous playerbase began to dwindle. From a high of 12 million players it fell down to 10, then the third expansion came out, Cataclysm. They brought back difficult dungeons and the need to CC. Everyone had forgotten how to CC. Tanks had forgotten how to line of sight pull mob packs let alone the most basic of pulling such as pulling groups back. The new generation of players went nuts and started leaving. Blizzard nerfed the new expansion's content quickly, but it was too late another 2 million subscribers had left from the new generation.

Now Blizzard was in a cache 22, if they went back to requiring effort and competence players left, if they made it easy players left.

Now in Mists of Panderia players are once again leaving but for more basic reasons that werent addressed. Everyone gets their version of content, normal or heroic. No what they forgot was that this is an MMO. What WoW has become is a single player game. That has not been addressed.

Content needs to be difficult to cultivate a community. WoW has no community. Players are simply not invested.

MMOs have become like FPS games. the latest one comes out and people play it for a month until the next one is released.

This is what made Classic WoW and The Burning Crusade memorable, the community. Not just your guild but the players you would meet. This happened in EQ and in Vanguard as well.

EVE still has this.

Dont even get me STARTED on PVP. In Mists of Panderia on my PVP server Horde and Alliance were standing right next to each other, doing the same quests, killing the same mobs, sometimes even helping each other out because they simply didn't want the grief of running back to their corpse should they die in battle.

Gone is risk vs reward, it is now reward vs time.

Community and player reputation is what makes an MMO. In Classic WoW you were someone on your serever and your guild was known, good or bad. We used to congratulate guilds on their first Rag kill, first Nef kill and when the AQ gates opened, when the best guild on the server killed CThun and KT for the first time, we reveled in their success, we were somehow part of it because we were on their server and knew them.

Now everyone is no one, and it is directly proportional to the game being dumbed down for the masses. WoW may have lost more subs than any other MMO has ever had, but I would bet good real money that someone got fired for that, or at least reassigned.

Let's not go the route of WoW, please.

I love the command ship class, its my favorite. The Nighthawk has always been my favorite but I can fly them all (except Gallente, its just too ugly to undock and should just self destruct itself). I am worried about missiles and the nighthawk but hope when balancing gets around to the command ships that it works out, until then I will use a vargur for 4s. The Sleipnir is a great ship but its nowhere near as durable as the nighthawk so you will have to adjust, I just don't like it compared to the nighthawk (I only use it now for sansha and amarr missions for its em resists). If you are comfy using shield tanking in your hawk I would suggest training up a machariel or vargur. I wouldn't expect to see command ship balancing until spring at the earliest.

Elephant, meet room.

The game's absolutely engaging best feature, is also far and away it's most godawful worst feature.

In many games people have gotten used to putting up with fuqtahrds to get to the best content. In EVE the fuqtahrds are the best content. Avoid them, and you miss too much of the game to make it worthwhile for most people.

Fixed it for you.

The day they make pvp 100% consensual in any kind of regard is the day I quit, and won't look back.

EVE used to be a true sandbox. CONCORD could be evaded, players ganked at any turn, highsec provided a true illusion of safety instead of what it is today.

EVE is a sandbox MMO and I don't know why people always want to constrict it into the box of traditional MMOs, Do this here, no there, etc etc.

EVE is not as popular as it would otherwise be because it is, at its core, a complex game. Easy to learn, hard to master, and the curve is tough. My first years in EVE were filled with confusion and even after all these years I'm constantly having to learn new tricks.

New players sometimes also feel they cannot ever catch up to older ones, and this simply isn't true -- after about 10m SP with focused training into a few hulls you are just as effective in that hull as older players. SP just brings variety. I'm at 145m SP and I can MAYBE apply 15m to each ship hull. Just my thoughts.

Right on! *high five*

EVE could have 10 million subs , if it wasn't EVE lol.

Yea, Death to the game we've played for years, spent hundreds of dollars on and are emotionally invested in!

*high five"

Interesting.

Currently, SWTOR has about the same number of paid subs as EvE and the SW Team considered that a failure. As a result, they consolidated servers down to a handful and went to a F2P model. Of course, this assumes you believe the various sub numbers being bantered about: the numbers I have seen are about 500K paid subs for each game.

So, what the SW team considers a failure is considered a success by the EvE team ?

Interesting.

I do agree that consensual PvP would cause the loss of some players, but a majority loss? No way, considering how many Hi Sec dwellers there are. Furthermore, that change would attract players who have long avoided EvE exactly because of the non-consensual PvP. And in all honesty, I don't hink boredom with the training system is an issue as much as a lack of PvE content would be for newly attracted players.

I think in the end, with a change to consensual PvP, the player base would be very different, but the number of paid subs would remain about the same.

There must be at least three Tom Gerard alts posting in this thread.

Else how did it get so far twisted from the OP?

8/10. Puts you right up there with Spank for thread manipulation.

Mr Epeen