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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Let's start talking about Tier 1 Battlecruisers
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Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#1 - 2012-11-27 21:32:13 UTC
Devblog wrote:

Prophecy: expected to be changed to a drone boat. This is a role revamp that will radically modify its slot and fitting layout. It will most likely have less bandwidth but more drone bay than the Myrmidon.

Ferox: we would like to reinforce the sniping nature of this ship, most likely by replacing the shield resistance bonus with a hybrid damage bonus. Nothing is set in stone yet, as we need to find ways to ensure it doesn’t compete with the Naga.

Brutix: this ship role conflicts a bit with the Talos, mainly because the latter is more mobile and packs more punch. We want to explore options on how to turn the Brutix into a more reliable close-range brawler, while the Talos keeps a kiting advantage.

Cyclone: ancillary shield boosters have significantly improved this ship performance; however, it won’t hurt to make sure it’s in a good shape before moving on.
(link)

These are the changes outlined in one of the october devblogs, that are supposed to be coming to tier1 BCs at some point next year. They are still quite vague though. Due to my boredom on the train today I thought about ways how I would make these happen:

First off, all of them are in dire need of extra powergrid and cpu. (And all would of course keep their link cpu reduction role bonus.) Furthermore:


Prophecy:

  • 6/4/6 slot layout (h/m/l)
  • drone bandwidth: 75 | drone bay: 175
  • 5 turret / 2 missile hardpoints
  • 10%/lvl bonus to drone damage and hitpoints, 5%/lvl bonus to armor resistance and laser damage

Lasers and drones basically. It has the drone bonus and bandwidth of the current Myrmidon, but I expect the Myrmidon to move up to atleast 100 bandwidth as hinted in the devblog. This new Prophecy thus remains as a more resilient option, but without being totally gimped in damage.

Ferox:

  • 7/6/4 slot layout
  • drone bandwidth: 25 | drone bay: 25
  • 7 turret / 5 missile hardpoints
  • 5%/lvl bonus to medium hybrid damage, 5%/lvl bonus to shield resistances

Just a fat Moa.
I though about giving it 8 turrets and a 12,5%/lvl optimal range bonus, but even that might not be enough to give the edge over the incredible Naga in situations except baittanking. So I'm stuck with this.
Also I have no idea why CCP wants to remove the shield resistance bonus. That seems to be its only advantage over the Naga.

Brutix:

  • 7/4/6 slot layout
  • drone bandwidth: 50 | drone bay: 100
  • 7 turret / 0 missile hardpoints
  • 5%/lvl bonus to medium hybrid damage, 18%/lvl powergrid reduction of propulsion modules
  • slight tweaks for less mass and more agility


This is kind of a crazy idea to get the Brutix to be feared again and terribly out of line, but I think It'd do the job.
First, you could fit a strong tank with neutrons with a standard dualprop without worrying about powergrid to improve your damage application. But it also opens the field for a variety of oversized AB/MWD fagottry fitting, even oversized dualprops or combinations of oversize MWD/AB with a 10mn AB/MWD.
You could pull off amazing slingshots or escape from bads with not enough webs even in an armor tanked blaster boat, be glorious etc. etc...


Cyclone:

  • 8/5/4 slot layout
  • drone bandwidth: 40 | drone bay: 40
  • 5 turret / 5 missile hardpoints
  • 6,5%/lvl bonus to medium projectile and heavy and assault missile damage, 7,5%/lvl bonus to shield boosting

Only a minor change actually, CCP wants to remove Minmatar splitweapon ships from the game instead of fixing them.
This would be a fixed version in my eyes. It can be flown with full weapon highslots, or with just cannons or just missiles allowing a variety of fittings. The bonus itself is slightly higher than normal to account for the fact that a part of the weapon rack is always unaffected by damge mods.
Maybe fitting a full rack of max. size weapons AND a x-large ASB should be impossible though, in terms of powergrid.




So much brainstorming from me (Blink), just to start a discussion. I'd like to know what your take on changing these ships would be ?
And especially how would you fix Ferox and Brutix ?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#2 - 2012-11-28 00:19:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Prophecy:
u cant put a drone AND a laser damage bonus to the prophecy. u've basically just made a ship with three bonuses. other than that, it needs a larger drone bay. a mere 25m3 over the myrm is unlikely to satisfy the lack of bandwidth vs the gal BC. Consider how the arbie has a full 50% over the vexor. 200 or 225m3 will allow for the three smaller wings vs the myrms larger two.

Ferox:
completely agree that the ferox should drop the optimal bonus and keep its shield resists. I'd rather the drake lost its shield resists and gained a missile velocity bonus. The Ferox's is best when its working as a close brawler and ur proposed slot layout will allow for a web. its completely optimised like that and i want one.

Brutix:
i dnt think it quite needs the extra drone bay. the Thorax doesnt have it, and the mega doesnt have it. Unfortunately the tracking bonus has been given to the talos and CCP said they wanted to make the brutix more tanky and less ganky in comparison. The problem with that is that gal are supposed to have active armour tanks, which is quite ineffective at the moment, and u can get almost as much ehp out of a shield brutix as u can an armour plated brutix. Love the idea of fiting oversized propulsion mods to it, but that is a bit OP'd. i can only think that they should give the brutix the 10% active tank bonus and half the cycle time, cap use and power of armour reps in general...i dunno

Cyclone:
the 6.5% damage bonus is actually less effective (for dps) than a 5% rate of fire bonus. why not just keep the RoF bonus to AC's and give it 6 turrets if u want more dps from it. I'd also be extremely hesitant to give it enough launcher dps to make it a missile boat. its extremely quick and can tank a ton of dps. it would become the kiter to end all kiting.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#3 - 2012-11-28 01:01:24 UTC
Prophecy
I would suggest a missile damage bonus along with the drone bonus as it fits better than lasers also people want more missile amarr boats.

Ferox
extra turret and extra low 6 meds with resist bonus as on the drake is too much. And 5% dmg bonus with resist bonus.

Brutix
They need to improve its mobility and its armour rep bonus and armour reps need a buff too.

Cyclone
more turrets less missiles and maybe switch its high for a low.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-11-28 03:15:17 UTC
Split weapons sound cool, to bad all the ships often have no bonuses to half their weapons, like the nagflar for example, GIVE IT A MISSLE DAMAGE BONUS C'MON. Maybe make weapon upgrades more powerful but have more severe stacking bonuses?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#5 - 2012-11-28 10:28:29 UTC
I would actually be in favour of missile bonuses for the prophecy and the cyclone, so they had synergy with the damnation and the claymore after the next round of rebalancing. (I am biased though, I really like missiles...)

There is another thread solely about the Ferox and its changes. It would mean caldari would have 5 sniping ships, 3 of which would be BCs. I just don't see the need.
Most people are in favour of making it a big Merlin/Moa, as am I.

The brutix is an odd one for me. I think leaving it as is with an extra low slot to bring it up to the 17 slot layout should do the trick.

Friends
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#6 - 2012-11-28 21:07:22 UTC
Interesting Smile

About the Brutix. I think just giving one more lowslot and upping the active-tank bonus would not really solve much. In the end it is still in direct competition with the Myrmidon, which is already the active-tank brawling-boat (And relatively effective in its current incarnation)
If both get the same bonus, it will either end with one of them being the clear baddie one that no one will use, or with both so similar that the distinction is not really worth it.
I think the Brutix should be distinctively different from the Myrmidon as well as the Talos. Thus is should be something that is neither brawler nor total in-the-face-gank.

And Cyclone, I see why everyone would love more turrets. It'd more in line with the other races' ships in EVE, more straightforward and the like. But at the same time it would be ultimatively more boring. Also it would mold the Cyclone into a meager copy of the Hurricane, except for their respective tanking bonuses.
A true splitweapon ship would be as effective, while allowing more variety, "Minmatar"-feel.
Another thing to consider is that CCP wants to change command-ships (e.g. the Claymore is going to me a missile-Sleipnir). In that regard, a "base" ship that can use both the weapons of the Sleipnir and of the Claymore sounds more coherent to me.
(I wouldn't mind seeing missiles on the Prophecy either, as preparation to the Damnation but I don't think that is on CCPs current agenda)
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#7 - 2012-11-28 21:21:03 UTC
Sheynan wrote:
Interesting Smile

About the Brutix. I think just giving one more lowslot and upping the active-tank bonus would not really solve much. In the end it is still in direct competition with the Myrmidon, which is already the active-tank brawling-boat (And relatively effective in its current incarnation)
If both get the same bonus, it will either end with one of them being the clear baddie one that no one will use, or with both so similar that the distinction is not really worth it.
I think the Brutix should be distinctively different from the Myrmidon as well as the Talos. Thus is should be something that is neither brawler nor total in-the-face-gank.

And Cyclone, I see why everyone would love more turrets. It'd more in line with the other races' ships in EVE, more straightforward and the like. But at the same time it would be ultimatively more boring. Also it would mold the Cyclone into a meager copy of the Hurricane, except for their respective tanking bonuses.
A true splitweapon ship would be as effective, while allowing more variety, "Minmatar"-feel.
Another thing to consider is that CCP wants to change command-ships (e.g. the Claymore is going to me a missile-Sleipnir). In that regard, a "base" ship that can use both the weapons of the Sleipnir and of the Claymore sounds more coherent to me.
(I wouldn't mind seeing missiles on the Prophecy either, as preparation to the Damnation but I don't think that is on CCPs current agenda)


The myrm will lose its rep bonus for a hybrid dmg bonus as per gal droneboat line.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#8 - 2012-11-28 21:23:00 UTC
That would be sad (IMO) What?, do you have a link to that statement ?
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-11-28 21:23:28 UTC
Harvey James wrote:

The myrm will lose its rep bonus for a hybrid dmg bonus as per gal droneboat line.


Stay the hell away from my triple rep myrm. Make the brutix the gunboat and make the myrm the unbreakable active tank monster.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#10 - 2012-11-28 21:27:24 UTC
Sheynan wrote:
That would be sad (IMO) What?, do you have a link to that statement ?


Well they refused to give the vexor the active bonus they want to keep the drone and hybrid dmg line going through to domi .

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#11 - 2012-11-28 21:42:27 UTC
The prophecy should be by all rights turned into a mini abaddon just like the punisher and maller. It should not be a drone boat since the amarr already have a drone heavy BC called the harbinger. The appropriate changes to the ship are thus +1 turret and a 5% per level medium energy turret damage bonus as a replacement for that god awful cap usage bonus. Other than a little extra grid/cpu to allow for the extra turret, nothing else is needed. It's a 2 minute change and is exactly what is needed. No comment on the others at this time.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#12 - 2012-11-28 21:50:36 UTC
King Rothgar wrote:
The prophecy should be by all rights turned into a mini abaddon just like the punisher and maller. It should not be a drone boat since the amarr already have a drone heavy BC called the harbinger. The appropriate changes to the ship are thus +1 turret and a 5% per level medium energy turret damage bonus as a replacement for that god awful cap usage bonus. Other than a little extra grid/cpu to allow for the extra turret, nothing else is needed. It's a 2 minute change and is exactly what is needed. No comment on the others at this time.


im guessing they decided turning the harbinger into the droneboat would **** people off more as it is a popular laser bc
where as the prophecy is rarely used so making the prophecy the droneboat and thus making it useful again made more sense.

I will be intrigued as to what the second bonus will be i imagine the neut range bonus the dessie gets might be too close to a curse or the ashimmu role so maybe a missile bonus would be the most popular choice.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#13 - 2012-11-29 13:24:18 UTC
King Rothgar wrote:
The prophecy should be by all rights turned into a mini abaddon just like the punisher and maller. It should not be a drone boat since the amarr already have a drone heavy BC called the harbinger. The appropriate changes to the ship are thus +1 turret and a 5% per level medium energy turret damage bonus as a replacement for that god awful cap usage bonus. Other than a little extra grid/cpu to allow for the extra turret, nothing else is needed. It's a 2 minute change and is exactly what is needed. No comment on the others at this time.



or turn the prophecy into a missile/drone boat and follow through with the abaddon as the same.
change the abaddon to a torp boat. the only torp boat we have is the bomber. we would have the vengenance, sacrilege, new drone dessy, frig drone boat and the abaddon.

just an idea.

i love lasers, but an amarr torp boat would be kewl too...
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#14 - 2012-11-29 13:39:36 UTC
Mole Guy wrote:
King Rothgar wrote:
The prophecy should be by all rights turned into a mini abaddon just like the punisher and maller. It should not be a drone boat since the amarr already have a drone heavy BC called the harbinger. The appropriate changes to the ship are thus +1 turret and a 5% per level medium energy turret damage bonus as a replacement for that god awful cap usage bonus. Other than a little extra grid/cpu to allow for the extra turret, nothing else is needed. It's a 2 minute change and is exactly what is needed. No comment on the others at this time.



or turn the prophecy into a missile/drone boat and follow through with the abaddon as the same.
change the abaddon to a torp boat. the only torp boat we have is the bomber. we would have the vengenance, sacrilege, new drone dessy, frig drone boat and the abaddon.

just an idea.

i love lasers, but an amarr torp boat would be kewl too...


Christ then maybe the caldari will get one :)

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using