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[Ushra'Khan] And so to war

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Author
Galdornae
Ice Fire Warriors
#41 - 2012-11-28 06:44:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Galdornae
Thorvik wrote:
So let me get this straight.

Galdornae wrote:
No such agreed upon cease fire existed. Ushra'Khan diplomats who contacted LNA officials were told specifically that they could not promise a cease-fire.


No cease-fire was agreed upon

You declared war on us

Bahamut is now butthurt over being shot at by WTs?





No.

My point is that the UK claim that there was a cease-fire during the bunker shoot is incorrect and frankly laughable.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-11-28 08:00:09 UTC
Maybe Fweddit and U'K should set each other blue for the duration of this wardec ... we can form up fleets and hunt LNA together. Twisted
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#43 - 2012-11-28 09:11:52 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Maybe Fweddit and U'K should set each other blue for the duration of this wardec ... we can form up fleets and hunt LNA together. Twisted


I hope this is simply part of a coordinated (though predictable) effort to milk the latest situation for every ounce of potential drama, because otherwise you're late to the party - Almity of Imperial Outlaws had already initiated contact with Late Night Alliance earlier this evening and made an offer of support in attacking Ushra'Khan capital ships if the opportunity presented itself. I can't tell if this is a poorly-hatched plan or if you're really in that much of a hurry to pad killboard statistics, either way it's amusing as hell and worth every dime Bahamut420 spent on Galdornae's birthday present.* Pirate


*Yes, you heard me correctly. Allow me to explain a bit about our culture which is so often misunderstood: You see, it is LNA tradition to do great and noble deeds on behalf of each of its warriors upon their annual naming-day. For events celebrating our greatest warriors, these deeds can often involve overcoming difficult decisions (I heard straws were drawn to see which poor soul was tasked with breaking the news of the wardec to our friend Kuan Yida) but we believe that a true Minmatar always sees any battle, internal or otherwise, as a chance to strengthen ourselves for the moments where we face our true slaver enemy. Sadly Ushra'Khan does not share our practical stance on the value of scrimmage and has chosen instead to victimize themselves rather than make the best of an opportunity to learn, grow, and entertain one's fighting forces.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2012-11-28 09:21:46 UTC
I am sure Hans knows he doesn't stand a chance of getting reelected.
Aln Al-Thalab
Doomheim
#45 - 2012-11-28 17:54:55 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Almity of Imperial Outlaws had already initiated contact with Late Night Alliance earlier this evening and made an offer of support in attacking Ushra'Khan capital ships if the opportunity presented itself.


So...

LNA pilots' claims that they destroyed the U'K fleet because they feared it's weakness and inability to defend against an Amarr fleet is utter bull****. In reality, LNA deployed a carrier-supported BS fleet in hopes the Ushra'Khan would deploy thier own capitals. Having struck a deal with the Amarr, such ruse would allow for a joint Amarr/LNA fleet to ambush a U'K cap fleet. your dedication to TLF is obviously unquestionable...
Aln Al-Thalab
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-11-28 17:56:43 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Almity of Imperial Outlaws had already initiated contact with Late Night Alliance earlier this evening and made an offer of support in attacking Ushra'Khan capital ships if the opportunity presented itself.


So...

LNA pilots' claims that they destroyed the U'K fleet because they feared it's weakness and inability to defend against an Amarr fleet is utter bull****. In reality, LNA deployed a carrier-supported BS fleet in hopes the Ushra'Khan would deploy thier own capitals. Having struck a deal with the Amarr, such ruse would allow for a joint Amarr/LNA fleet to ambush a U'K cap fleet. your dedication to TLF is obviously unquestionable...
Thorvik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2012-11-28 17:57:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Thorvik
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
... - stuf - ... either way it's amusing as hell and worth every dime Bahamut420 spent on Galdornae's birthday present.* Pirate

*Yes, you heard me correctly. Allow me to explain a bit about our culture which is so often misunderstood: You see, it is LNA tradition to do great and noble deeds on behalf of each of its warriors upon their annual naming-day. For events celebrating our greatest warriors, these deeds can often involve overcoming difficult decisions (I heard straws were drawn to see which poor soul was tasked with breaking the news of the wardec to our friend Kuan Yida) but we believe that a true Minmatar always sees any battle, internal or otherwise, as a chance to strengthen ourselves for the moments where we face our true slaver enemy. Sadly Ushra'Khan does not share our practical stance on the value of scrimmage and has chosen instead to victimize themselves rather than make the best of an opportunity to learn, grow, and entertain one's fighting forces.


This is getting more amusing by the minute.

Initially, we are told that LNA placed a war dec on U'K because a scout, which happened to be a new pilot, flew into a plex in order to steal valuable Loyalty Points. In that statement, LNA painted themselves as the victim of the "interlopers" that are Ushra'Khan. We were the "bad" guys for attempting to steal resources from the poor pilots in LNA yet they were the ones that financed the Wardec.

Don't forget. U'K were the ones taking this "WAAAAAAAAY too seriously". Some LNA pilot got butthurt over the fact that someone in U'K may (or may not) have tried to horn in on his precious LP. "Awoxing", I believe the word was.

And we are the serious ones...? Roll

War dec went live and they have made every effort to not speak with us with regards to that incident despite our attempts.

That's fine.

We now hear from prominent space politico that "OH, this is all a birthday present for Galdornae"... and that U'K are painting themselves as the victims.

This is a change of tack and looks vaguely like an attempt at damage control.

As part of the overall TLF / Militia strategy, U'K was working with other TLF corps and alliances last night to flip Flosewin.

A direct attack was made by LNA (as part of their "fun") on the TLF joint operations fleet in the liberation of Flosewin. The fleet was FC'd by U'K and fleet was ordered to not attack LNA but concentrate on the task at hand. As a result, 3 pilots lost their ships to "Friendly Fire".

LNA showed their true colours and their treachery is self evident. Bahamut420 was heard to say "We are not here for TLF".

A more true statement hasn't been uttered by the LNA up to that point. By directly attacking a joint TLF fleet they proved their "loyalty" to the TLF and the Minmatar cause.

Edit: BTW, the order not to shoot LNA has now been rescinded. Now that they have shown themselves as an enemy of the Republic, we see no reason to hold our fire.
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#48 - 2012-11-28 18:16:53 UTC
Good evening capsuleers.

I have striven to remove comments from this thread that are of an inexplicable nature. Please remind yourself about the rules of this forum and choose your words appropriately, else I will have to lock this topic and issue further warnings.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents

Jessie Arr
Order of the Black Dagger
#49 - 2012-11-28 18:19:18 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Sadly Ushra'Khan does not share our practical stance on the value of scrimmage and has chosen instead to victimize themselves rather than make the best of an opportunity to learn, grow, and entertain one's fighting forces.


Allow me to clarify - we are not the victims here. Many (see: all) of us are happy for the war for personal reasons, but we also understand that our role in the Militia is greater than ourselves and that this really isn't about us OR LNA. The fact that LNA can't see past themselves to understand how this affects the militia as a whole is mind-blowing to me.

The winners here are the Amarr, LNA and UK, all of whom will enjoy this war.

The victims are the brave warriors of the Minmatar Militia who have no hand in this war and are watching two of their strongest allies' attention be divided due to infighting. And it is for their sake that we have worked to avoid the war.

We will enjoy it like we do every war. Maybe even a tad more. Lol

Your bravado only adds an immature glamor to your own short-sightedness, and no one who's been paying attention is buying it.

Order of the Black Dagger is a corp based around a simple goal: getting as much small gang PvP as we can handle. We accept USTZ PvP pilots of all skill levels.

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#50 - 2012-11-28 18:39:32 UTC
Aln Al-Thalab wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Almity of Imperial Outlaws had already initiated contact with Late Night Alliance earlier this evening and made an offer of support in attacking Ushra'Khan capital ships if the opportunity presented itself.


So...

LNA pilots' claims that they destroyed the U'K fleet because they feared it's weakness and inability to defend against an Amarr fleet is utter bull****. In reality, LNA deployed a carrier-supported BS fleet in hopes the Ushra'Khan would deploy thier own capitals. Having struck a deal with the Amarr, such ruse would allow for a joint Amarr/LNA fleet to ambush a U'K cap fleet. your dedication to TLF is obviously unquestionable...


Oh, please. Roll I said Almity made an offer, not that we actually cared. Our response was simply to laugh it off and warn them that there would be no truce with Amarrians, and that they hovered around our activities at their own risk. Imperial Outlaws and Fweddit remain our mortal enemies regardless of their attempts to strike opportunistic bargains with either of our Alliances.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Scottish Play
Major Kong Freight
#51 - 2012-11-28 18:51:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Scottish Play
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
. . . and that they hovered around our activities at their own risk.
Ha.

When you Late Nighters learn to focus fire, then there'll be some actual risk in attacking you.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#52 - 2012-11-28 19:29:37 UTC
Jessie Arr wrote:
The victims are the brave warriors of the Minmatar Militia who have no hand in this war and are watching two of their strongest allies' attention be divided due to infighting. And it is for their sake that we have worked to avoid the war.


While I can certainly appreciate the "for their sake" sentiment being employed here, I will once again reassert my confidence in Bahamut420 that he will not allow this dispute to actually jeopardize TLF long-term goals. I don't think you're giving him enough credit, especially since he was the consistent voice *against* going to war until LNA's warnings had been ignored for too long, and responsibility to protect his alliance's interests kicked in.

If Floseswin had fallen last night, you would make a strong case for this. If any Minmatar systems had fallen previously the LAST time a Matari alliance decided to label LNA as traitors and fret about the Amarr taking advantage of our internal dispute, you might make a strong case. History is simply repeating itself, and as before, once the war blows over and everyone gets their jollies from it life continue on and the Minmatar Republic will be just as strong as ever. During that wardec as well, there were many cries of "but this hurts our people" and "how could you betray the TLF" which never actually translated into any real system loss. Not to mention Bahamut was at the time more than reasonable and made every effort to sort out the dispute, resisting the knee-jerk decision to go to war despite his alliance mates' demands. It was only when there was clear and present evidence that one of his friends had been attacked that he took action. Rehashing tired hyperbole isn't going to convince anyone there is a real crisis generated by this most recent wardec.

Bahamut420 is shrewd, cunning, fearless, and in control. His loyalty to the Minmatar Militia is irrefutable both historically and evidenced through the accolades your Alliance has showered on him for his achievements. You can continue to ignore his spotless track record and question his decisions, but as any Alliance leader he has a right to protect those under his authority from those that would continually provoke them, and is quite capable of doing this without losing systems to the Amarr in the process. When LNA aggression on UK directly leads to the loss of a Minmatar system, I'll be happy to revisit this and concede the issue. Until than, "in Baha we trust".

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Phobos Eversor
Order of the Black Dagger
#53 - 2012-11-28 20:30:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Phobos Eversor
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:

If Floseswin had fallen last night, you would make a strong case for this. If any Minmatar systems had fallen previously the LAST time a Matari alliance decided to label LNA as traitors and fret about the Amarr taking advantage of our internal dispute, you might make a strong case. History is simply repeating itself, and as before, once the war blows over and everyone gets their jollies from it life continue on and the Minmatar Republic will be just as strong as ever. During that wardec as well, there were many cries of "but this hurts our people" and "how could you betray the TLF" which never actually translated into any real system loss. Not to mention Bahamut was at the time more than reasonable and made every effort to sort out the dispute, resisting the knee-jerk decision to go to war despite his alliance mates' demands. It was only when there was clear and present evidence that one of his friends had been attacked that he took action. Rehashing tired hyperbole isn't going to convince anyone there is a real crisis generated by this most recent wardec.


While you could perhaps argue that this was the case in the past, things are different in this particular situation. With a new stargate slated to be deployed in Isbrabata, and subsequently giving the Amarr a nascent backdoor into Metro, it's not so much about systems falling as not being able to establish full regional control and effectively prepare a defense force quickly enough. Floseswin fell, Aset is next. It'd be great if we could seize it and allocate defense forces to the area before the new stargate is deployed, but that's less likely to happen if we spend our time taking pot-shots at each other instead of making sure all the doors are locked.

Sure, the war between U'K and LNA isn't the end of the world, but this really isn't the most appropriate time or place for it either.
Aln Al-Thalab
Doomheim
#54 - 2012-11-28 20:32:13 UTC
Few doubt LNA's contribution to TLF and the war effort in Kormonen and Kamela. Certainly, LNA has a number of very skilled pilots, whom the Amarr curse upon entering local. But LNA's success has corrupted it's leaders, at the expense of the TLF. It is not so much what LNA has done for TLF, but how much more TLF could be without the hostile and elitist attitude that has permeated across the top ranks of LNA. LNA (and only select corps and individuals in LNA, mind you) is an impediment to TLF reaching it's full potential.

LNA does not fight on the frontlines, but between them, fighting the Amarr then TLF entities as thier mood dictates. LNA's declaration of war on TLF stem from boredom. The attack at Floseswin stemmed from opportunity. To pretend otherwise is to deceive.

TLF continues to purge Metropolis of Amar hiding behind the front lines. U'K continues to aid in this endeavor. You cannot stop us. We will not falter. We come for our people.
Shalee Lianne
Banana-Republic.
Shadow Cartel
#55 - 2012-11-28 20:34:56 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen is a bold faced liar.
http://amarrian.blogspot.com/  ~ Roleplay blog. http://sovereigntywars.wordpress.com/ ~ Faction War blog.
Thorvik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2012-11-28 21:01:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Thorvik
You continue to astound…

Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
While I can certainly appreciate the "for their sake" sentiment being employed here, I will once again reassert my confidence in Bahamut420 that he will not allow this dispute to actually jeopardize TLF long-term goals. I don't think you're giving him enough credit, especially since he was the consistent voice *against* going to war until LNA's warnings had been ignored for too long, and responsibility to protect his alliance's interests kicked in.

We aren’t giving Bahamut420 any credit here. He has shown himself to be ruled by his testosterone rather than any military reason. Your “warnings” mean absolutely nothing to us. We are not your lapdogs and will not subject ourselves to your whims. LNA has been the Militia bully and now you are hurt that someone doesn’t want to listen to your “warnings”.
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
If Floseswin had fallen last night, you would make a strong case for this. If any Minmatar systems had fallen previously the LAST time a Matari alliance decided to label LNA as traitors and fret about the Amarr taking advantage of our internal dispute, you might make a strong case.
… Not to mention Bahamut was at the time more than reasonable and made every effort to sort out the dispute, resisting…


Flosewin was flipped because we had cooperation within the militia to actively turn a system to our advantage. The joint operations of the U’K and other Militia corps won the day. You give yourself a lot of credit here and none of it is deserved.
Your pathetic attempts at disrupting the good we are trying to do are just that: pathetic. You are traitors. Your actions against the joint fleet prove this.

The only thing that Bahamut wants is for us to cower at your warnings. There has been no “reasonable attempt” or effort on anyone’s part within LNA. We are willing to listen but if Bahamut wants to play “games” then we are more than willing to oblige.
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Bahamut420 is shrewd, cunning, fearless, and in control. His loyalty to the Minmatar Militia is irrefutable both historically and evidenced through the accolades your Alliance has showered on him for his achievements. ….


I see now. This is just one part of the grand scheme of a master tactician who has war decced friendly militia members in order to gain a strategic advantage over the Amarr. WOW. I think we all feel better now…. Roll What a bunch of manure that is.

We must be missing out on a lot of actions. His past record is, as you say, beyond reproach. His current record is one of attempted bullying and treason.

There’s nothing shrewd or cunning about demoralizing your own Militia. With regards to “fearless”? There is nothing that smacks more of cowardice than attacking your own people.

We Come For Our People. We will not falter nor will we allow others to stand in the way of our objectives.
Kuan Yida
Huang Yinglong
Electus Matari
#57 - 2012-11-28 21:06:17 UTC
Well, no one from Ushra'Khan has contacted me asking me to request a withdrawal of LNA's war dec; not that they would listen at this point, though I might be able to guilt Bahamut into it. So I supposed both groups will now happily go guns free. A pity.

Perhaps I'll just stay docked for the duration of these hostilities.

The dragon knight treasures the state, friendship, duty, promises, kindness, vengeance, honor, and righteousness more than his own life._ _- The Way of the Dragon Warrior Random Posts from Auga

Shalee Lianne
Banana-Republic.
Shadow Cartel
#58 - 2012-11-28 21:08:16 UTC
...or you could come visit with me Kuan. It's been too long.
http://amarrian.blogspot.com/  ~ Roleplay blog. http://sovereigntywars.wordpress.com/ ~ Faction War blog.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#59 - 2012-11-28 21:12:44 UTC
Kuan Yida wrote:
Well, no one from Ushra'Khan has contacted me asking me to request a withdrawal of LNA's war dec; not that they would listen at this point, though I might be able to guilt Bahamut into it. So I supposed both groups will now happily go guns free. A pity.


Perhaps your offer to mediate would have been taken if anyone had any faith that LNA would negotiate in good faith, rather than lying, prevaricating, and using diplomacy as a cloak for aggression.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#60 - 2012-11-28 21:26:09 UTC
Amusing how both sides are trying to paint themselves as something other than people with aggression issues and big guns.

Katrina Oniseki