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EVE New Citizens Q&A

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Best bang for your buck?

Cornelius Varus
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-11-28 00:41:45 UTC
Hello friends. Long time mmo'er wondering why I waited so long to try this game.

Finally gave it a shot and have been playing nonstop for the last few days. I'm really enjoying myself.

I have been reading a lot but am looking for guidance and feedback from some experts to make sure I am getting off on the right foot.

Because I liked their back story, I chose Amarr. Right now I have about 250k skill points.

I just subbed today (only took 3 days of the trial to convince me). I did the tutorial and right now I am doing the Sisters of Eve missions while raising skills and want to sign up for factional pvp. I am wondering how many skill points I should have before I actually give it a try?

As far as pvp goes:

I have always been a big bang for the buck guy. For instance when I build a new PC I am always looking to maximize my value for dollar and look for that sweet spot where I can get 90% of the performance for 50% of the cost. I'd like to apply this to Eve, and I know you should never fly what you can't afford to lose so I am looking at the Tormentor as my learner pvp frigate.

I started off flying a Punisher, but wasn't sure I liked the close in fighting style.

I have my ship outfitted with beam lasers and am using infrared crystals which gives me an optimal range of 11 KM. I also am using the Hobgoblin drones. I'm having a good time with this setup in pve.

I guess I am looking to see if the Tormentor will be a doable in pvp. If so, any build or tactics suggestions would be appreciated. I'm kind of thinking of trying to kite with it maybe.

Lastly I am curious if anyone has a better suggestion for the best bang for my buck for a learner frigate. Cheapest build, best combat viability. (I'm expecting to die....a lot!)

Thanks much friends

Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-11-28 01:03:17 UTC
Hi there and welcome to Eve.

What you are asking in your post would require a rather lengthy response including numerous aspects of PvP mechanics/factors relating to fittings, ship types, kiting vs brawling, weapon types etc etc.

Some of these things are best experienced through trial and error, so providing you with the theory may skew you to choosing one type over another.

However, you did mention 'kiting' as a preferred method of PvP. Although some Amarr ships can fill this role and I really cannot comment on the Tormentor as most Amarr frigs other than the Punisher sucked back when I was flying them (prior to the recent rebalance); 11km is really not considered a healthy kiting distance in my opinion. In fact you are well within the overheated warp scrambler range, which will effectively eliminate any hope of successfully kiting - yes, there are instances where this may not be necessarily true but more often than not a kite set-up will be ineffective at ranges ~15km and below.

For one of the most effective kiting frigates in the game; and if you are looking at FW, this will be even more relevant, I would recommend the Imperial Navy Slicer. With 20km+ optimal range and good speed and agility it will be far more effective in dictating and maintaining kiting range, which is generally considered to be ~24km (Warp Disruptor range).

If you are still eager to spend less ISK and stick to standard T1 Amarr frigates, I would recommend reviewing your fighting style and going for a more traditional brawling approach.

See how you go and I hope that you find the right ship to suit your desired fighting style.
Esruc 'Sadim
#3 - 2012-11-28 01:03:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Esruc 'Sadim
You should expect to die a lot. Really any t1 fit t1 frig will be good. Not just for learning either. A lot of pvp happens in t1 frigs because most pvper's are looking to do it cheap. (keeping in mind that "cheap" is relative) There is no skill point floor for pvp. As a matter of fact it is highly suggested that you get out and do it right away. No matter your skill points the learning curve is steep and more about player skill and acquired knowledge then skill points and shinny equipment. You will die a lot and it is best to do it now while your equipment and clone cost so little. That way you will be getting the most bang for your buck. Also, don't just join the militia. Find an active faction war corp to join with players that don't mind showing you the ropes.

Good luck & welcome to the best game ever

Edit: kiting is a pro technique in Eve. It requires finesse and a healthy understanding of the game mechanics...look at this blog for some tips

Insert something witty and clever here

Cornelius Varus
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-11-28 01:18:37 UTC
Thanks much. These responses are already tremendously helpful. Maybe I should stick to more of a brawler style then while first starting...particularly if I want to do it on the cheap.
Braxus Deninard
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#5 - 2012-11-28 02:54:18 UTC
I would recommend finding a good corp to learn pvp in EvE. Many factional warfare corps will be new-player friendly, but if you can't find any, there is always RvB and Eve-Uni, which are generally considered to be a great place to learn to pvp amongst a pretty wide variety of players.
Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-11-28 03:55:32 UTC
Cornelius Varus wrote:
Thanks much. These responses are already tremendously helpful. Maybe I should stick to more of a brawler style then while first starting...particularly if I want to do it on the cheap.

Brawling will certainly give you a good appreciation of basic PvP mechanics and will be more forgiving than trying to kite. It's not to say that this style is less skillfull than kiting but it certainly leaves much less room for error. Kiting setups will also likely be more skill intensive as you will want to max out most of your relevant Navigation skills on top of the other basic ship/weapon/fitting skills.

Don't get discouraged in trying to kite though, even as a starter. You will likely get caught and die quite a few times in the process but if you are OK with this fact, go for it.
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#7 - 2012-11-28 10:34:10 UTC
I also vote "bite the bullet, do brawling instead of kiting, and just deal with dying a lot".

Primarily because when you charge a (usually bigger, stronger) ship with guns blazing, you'll probably find it more funny than tragic when you blow up. If you're under the impression that you're doing something clever with the mechanics like kiting people around, getting blown up (the exact same number of times) is instead going to get _really frustrating_.

Frustrating is bad, it causes you to burn out before you get actually good at flying about.

As for the best SP total to start PvP, I'd go with "while you still have less than 900k sp", because you can get your "oh, crap, that was the wrong button abort abort" pod-deaths out of the way before updating your clone actually costs anything. Well, most of them, I still do it occasionally.
Esruc 'Sadim
#8 - 2012-11-28 10:44:41 UTC
Fun story. Not too long ago I loaded the last of my isk (4 t2 fit frigs, ammo/cap boosters, & some random goodies/ skill books) into a mammoth for a trip into 0.0 for my battle toon. On the first lowsec gate camp, when trying for the cloak-micro-warp trick, I mashed 1 & 2 instead of F1 & F2...then died in a fire. The point is that button mashing happens. Don't sweat it unless your carrying a bill in loot or are flying a bill worth of shiny ship

Insert something witty and clever here

#9 - 2012-11-28 12:35:29 UTC
The earlier you start pew pew the better, by the time you have 2 or 3 mil sp it can be too late and you will have picked up bad habits and the fear.
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#10 - 2012-11-28 13:10:27 UTC
Best way to start early pew is finding a good new player friendly corp.
Spend your time researching the right corporation and you will find the time well spend when choosing ship and pvp-styles.

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -

Lyric Lahnder
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-11-28 14:26:35 UTC
Try to get tech two guns as soon as possible, and with small guns it wont be hard. The sooner you can start swapping those radio crystals for scorch the better. The problem with radio is yes its range is awesome but its damage is severely lacking, not even great alpha either. If I had to kite fit a tormentor this is how I would fit it like this:

[Tormentor, Kiting fit]

Heat Sink II
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Overdrive Injector System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Hobgoblin II x2
Top speed is 3203(heat) 4561
EHP 4.86
DPS Scorch: 149 dps Multi: 159
OptRng: 13.8km

Noir. and Noir Academy are recruiting apply at I Noir Academy: 60 days old must be able to fly at least one tech II frigate. I Noir. Recruits: 4:1 k/d ratio and can fly tech II cruisers.

Cornelius Varus
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-11-28 14:49:13 UTC
So many helpful people, thanks much and I will try out that fit.

I better get working on making more ISK to finance this stuff haha.
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#13 - 2012-11-28 14:56:28 UTC
There's only one real answer and Blain has it.
Ovv Topik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-11-28 22:43:23 UTC
Cornelius Varus wrote:
Because I liked their back story, I chose Amarr.

What a Sicko!
Mate, you're like the perfect Eve player!

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

Alexis Valentyne
Anacorn Contracts Agency
#15 - 2012-11-28 23:07:05 UTC
Why the need to be so frugal?

I seem to smell the stench of appeasement in the air.

Solomar Espersei
Quality Assurance
#16 - 2012-11-29 00:52:54 UTC
Bang for the buck. Well, to echo the others, kiting against most experienced players turns into who can manually fly his space pixels more effectively than the other guy. You're trying to pull range and keep range, while he's probably trying to slingshot you. If your idea of simply kiting is to hit orbit, you're in for some brawling whether you wanted to or not.

My advice would be to train up small blasters and either fly a brawling Incursus or Merlin. They can both fit impressive tanks and who knows, you'll likely end up with a few "oops I just won this fight" moments in spite of your lack of experience.

I'd say for the ISKies, if you can afford it, it's hard to beat either a HAM Drake or an XASB blaster Ferox. The first one will likely be mistaken for the more common HML, PODLA-style Drake and punches quite hard (about to get better even), while the lowly Ferox gets no respect at all (still) and can be pretty surprising. Neither is very expensive and both have pretty solid tanks and are fun to fly. Along those same lines is the blaster ASB Moa, a greatly maligned ship which is pretty cheap and effective.

Something to consider if your wallet is good, is that frigate PVP happens at a very, very fast pace and there's little room for error. The BC hulls above (and buff cruisers like the Moa) have enough of a tank that you can process information a bit better when you're new. To that end, I urge you to consider the Incursus/Merlin if you're going to stick with frigate hulls.

Quality Assurance Recruiting intrepid explorers and BlOps/Cov Ops combat enthusiasts

Eternal Montage
Myriad Sequence
#17 - 2012-11-29 15:54:15 UTC
Buddy of mine uses the imperial navy slicer with scorch, buffer and rep. He raves about it. Says its the best kiting frigate he's used.

I suggest you look into the t1 cruisers come retribution. A lot of them will be viable come dec 4th. Amarr isn't the best for kiting though, unfortunately.
Silas Mather
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-11-29 16:08:27 UTC
Thought I would update this thread....I am the OP.

I rolled my first toon without putting any thought into it really.

I ended up starting this guy as a Caldari and I think I have a better idea of what I want to do.

I didn't like armor tanking and I really want to try playing more of a long range game.

At this point I am loving my Condor and I researched some threads about focusing my skill training. I am going a missiles route....feel like a submarine commander.

I figure play the way you like so I really want to give it a shot...if worse comes to worse, I didn't delete my original toon and I can go back to him since he has a good start on gunnery systems etc.

I could see using Condors as my pvp trainer or if I want to spend a bit more per ship I could do a Kestrel. These vessels seem to be a better fit for the style of flying I want to pursue.

Thank you again for all the help and encouragement.
Keno Skir
#19 - 2012-11-29 16:09:01 UTC
Confirming Navy Slicer anecdote.
Keno Skir
#20 - 2012-11-29 16:10:19 UTC
Think you're being a little too frugal. Purely because within 1 month of play you will be able to sh*t kestrals without noticing the wallet drop.