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Missiles and the future of caldari ships in EVE
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Kali Starchaser
Void Runner Salvage and Acquisitions
#1 - 2012-11-28 09:14:17 UTC
So, I am hearing VERY discouraging things about the changes to missiles and many people I know are abandoning their caldari ships and starting over training for Gallente or Amarr ships/weapons. I am wondering if someone can 100% clarify these missile changes, and if they are as big of a change as I am hearing will there be an option to transfer the millions of points people have invested in missiles into something else of their choice?
Planktal
Kenshao Industries
#2 - 2012-11-28 09:16:49 UTC
Transfer of SP, Not going to happen in a million years.
Training another race, try Minmatar or Amarr, Gallente will also be dead with the new NPC AI coming in for rats.

Here sanity, nice sanity.....THWOOK Got the bastard
Kara Vix
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-11-28 09:32:36 UTC
Train up a Vargur for PVE, it can adapt to anything and looks good doing it. My missile days are over, may my lovely nighthawk rest in peace.
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
#4 - 2012-11-28 09:37:38 UTC
From https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155029&find=unread
CCP Fozzie wrote:

All Missiles
Increase missile acceleration so that real range is much closer to the client assumed range of flighttime*speed against a stationary target. This means a slight range buff for all missiles, and missiles will act in a way that is more intuitive to newer players.

Short Range Missiles
Change the Guided Missile Precision skill, as well as all associated implants and rigs to affect all subcap missiles
Reduce HAM launcher PG requirements by 10%

Light Missiles
-Decrease all Light Missile Launcher fitting requirements by 2pg and 4cpu
-Explosion radius reduced from 50 to 40
-Damage increased by 10% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant light missiles, including FOF.

Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 35%
-Base velocity increased by 14.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 10% (rounded to closest digit)
-Explosion radius increased by 12%
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.

Tech Two Missiles
-Remove ship penalties from tech two missiles (ship velocity and signature radius)
-Precision: Increase bonuses to explosion velocity to +20%, increase damage to match T1 missiles
-Fury: Increase damage bonus to +35%, reduce flight time to 75% of T1, unify penalties to explosion radius (+72%) and velocity (-16%) across the sizes
-Javelin: Just remove ship penalties
-Rage: Increase damage bonus to +35%, Unify flight time to match T1, unify velocity penalty (-16.7%), unify penalty to explosion velocity (-14%), increase penalty to explosion radius (+72%)

tl:dr version - heavy missiles getting nerfed, all other sub cap missiles getting buffed.

Fear God and Thread Nought
tgl3
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-11-28 09:44:15 UTC
CCP will not refund SP for balance changes. They didn't for Supercap changes. They didn't for ship changes.
Van Kuzco
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-11-28 09:52:01 UTC
I actually think the new HAMs will clear C1s faster than the old HMs. I'm excited to try it out. Has anyone done so on the test server yet?
Natassia Krasnoo
R3D SHIFT
#7 - 2012-11-28 10:03:42 UTC
I spoke to an individual who was testing this on the test servers and they essentially said the HM nerf hammer was way too strong. They are barely, (and he heavily emphasized barely a couple times), above the power of HAMs now. He said the difference was actually minute and that HAMs ROF may put them over the top. I myself haven't had the time to test this, so if anyone could confirm this it would be great.
pussnheels
Viziam
#8 - 2012-11-28 10:46:54 UTC
25% reduction in range for heavy missiles , so instead of 100 k in your tengu it is only 75 k 10% less damage .. okay but did you had a look what they doing with t2 missiles , no penamties and some even a damage increase

OP is making a elephant out of a mouse ,
overlall missiles wil be user friendly and the T2 missiles even better

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Jessy Berbers
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-11-28 11:06:57 UTC
Please Heavy Missile users stop over reacting...
you're missiles for once will have the same range as my rails, and my drones.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#10 - 2012-11-28 11:07:40 UTC
Feel free to abandon the caldari line.

Let's hope you don't expect Gallente or Amarr medium sized long range weapons to be any better than post-Retribution heavy missiles, since heavy missiles will still be leaps and bounds better than all the medium sized long range weapons.

Might be a good idea to start training the other races though, since the BC balancing that's coming up might leave the easy mode drake in a bad place.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#11 - 2012-11-28 11:12:31 UTC
Natassia Krasnoo wrote:
I spoke to an individual who was testing this on the test servers and they essentially said the HM nerf hammer was way too strong. They are barely, (and he heavily emphasized barely a couple times), above the power of HAMs now. He said the difference was actually minute and that HAMs ROF may put them over the top. I myself haven't had the time to test this, so if anyone could confirm this it would be great.


Working as intended.

You dont' think that HAMS are supposed to do more damage than heavy missiles, you know since they only go like 1/4 of the distance?
Merch BAYLOR
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-11-28 11:29:44 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
Natassia Krasnoo wrote:
I spoke to an individual who was testing this on the test servers and they essentially said the HM nerf hammer was way too strong. They are barely, (and he heavily emphasized barely a couple times), above the power of HAMs now. He said the difference was actually minute and that HAMs ROF may put them over the top. I myself haven't had the time to test this, so if anyone could confirm this it would be great.


Working as intended.

You dont' think that HAMS are supposed to do more damage than heavy missiles, you know since they only go like 1/4 of the distance?



ROFL....

It's like saying BLasters shouldn't do more damage than Rails since they have a reduced range.

You're funny!
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-11-28 11:42:47 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
25% reduction in range for heavy missiles , so instead of 100 k in your tengu it is only 75 k 10% less damage .. okay but did you had a look what they doing with t2 missiles , no penamties and some even a damage increase

OP is making a elephant out of a mouse ,
overlall missiles wil be user friendly and the T2 missiles even better


Although I think the change will be fine and Missiles will survive this nerf.

It be fair to name the total extend of the HM nerf

-Explosion radius increased by 12%

This is nasty bit of it.

you're damage loss against smaller targets is getting a serious nerf.


Though with the reduction of fittings for ham and light missiles launchers and the ubguided missiles becoming guided I think Missiles will survive after the 4th.

Actualy I think HAM and rockets will need a new vieuwing and HM might need that explosion radius a little decreased.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#14 - 2012-11-28 12:17:24 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:

-Explosion radius increased by 12%

This is nasty bit of it.


Which brings faction heavy missiles to 105m explosion radius with skills @ 5. Still better than medium turrets with their 125m signature resolution.

Fury, will be affected by this for sure, but yet again precision missiles will be even lower than 105m expl radius. It will end up being 180 explosion radius up from 161, not really a big deal (skills @ 5).
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-11-28 12:27:32 UTC
HMLs getting nerfed, HAMs buffed, torps buffed, rockets buffed.
seems like a fair trade to me...

There is no Bob.

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Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#16 - 2012-11-28 12:37:23 UTC
I'm fine with this all because I can fly all ships below battleship effectively.
I can't however actually fly Gallente or Minnmatar Battleships. I can use their weapons though.

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt
Doddy
Excidium.
#17 - 2012-11-28 12:57:58 UTC
Kali Starchaser wrote:
So, I am hearing VERY discouraging things about the changes to missiles and many people I know are abandoning their caldari ships and starting over training for Gallente or Amarr ships/weapons. I am wondering if someone can 100% clarify these missile changes, and if they are as big of a change as I am hearing will there be an option to transfer the millions of points people have invested in missiles into something else of their choice?


So you have ignored the 2 months of consultation and testing and now you want others to tell you whats going on? Missiles are just being brought more in line with other damage systems, and while heavy missiles are getting nerfed assaults/rockets/torpedos are all getting big buffs. Cruise will still be broken but ccp will fix them when they rebalance bs early next year.

In a nut shell the heavy missiles are getting thier range and damage cut, hams/torps/rockets will now be effected by TNP and all missiles are getting increased velocity with flight time cut to keep range roughly the same. Tengu will still be better than anything else sub bs for pretty much all pve, and won't really have a missile competitor till cruise are fixed. Drake will be a bit less obviously better than all other long range bcs (tho hamdrake is sexed up). Nighthawk and cerberus will be more broken than now, but are due a major overhaul anyway. There are other tidbits like fury becoming more about short range pwnage of big stuff and precisions actually being useful.

If you were to change to amarr or gallente medium long range turrets you would find just how easy mode heavy missiles have been.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#18 - 2012-11-28 13:03:28 UTC
Natassia Krasnoo wrote:
I spoke to an individual who was testing this on the test servers and they essentially said the HM nerf hammer was way too strong. They are barely, (and he heavily emphasized barely a couple times), above the power of HAMs now. He said the difference was actually minute and that HAMs ROF may put them over the top. I myself haven't had the time to test this, so if anyone could confirm this it would be great.


HAMs are supposed to outdamage HMs.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-11-28 13:06:48 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
Mike Whiite wrote:

-Explosion radius increased by 12%

This is nasty bit of it.


Which brings faction heavy missiles to 105m explosion radius with skills @ 5. Still better than medium turrets with their 125m signature resolution.

Fury, will be affected by this for sure, but yet again precision missiles will be even lower than 105m expl radius. It will end up being 180 explosion radius up from 161, not really a big deal (skills @ 5).



Ofcourse you're allowed your oppinion, but the explosion raduis is a different variable than the turret resolution and the explosion radius is a vastly bigger factor in damage calculation than the turret resolution, which is a to hit factor instead of a damage factor.
Kali Starchaser
Void Runner Salvage and Acquisitions
#20 - 2012-11-28 13:21:03 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Kali Starchaser wrote:
So, I am hearing VERY discouraging things about the changes to missiles and many people I know are abandoning their caldari ships and starting over training for Gallente or Amarr ships/weapons. I am wondering if someone can 100% clarify these missile changes, and if they are as big of a change as I am hearing will there be an option to transfer the millions of points people have invested in missiles into something else of their choice?


So you have ignored the 2 months of consultation and testing and now you want others to tell you whats going on? Missiles are just being brought more in line with other damage systems, and while heavy missiles are getting nerfed assaults/rockets/torpedos are all getting big buffs. Cruise will still be broken but ccp will fix them when they rebalance bs early next year.

In a nut shell the heavy missiles are getting thier range and damage cut, hams/torps/rockets will now be effected by TNP and all missiles are getting increased velocity with flight time cut to keep range roughly the same. Tengu will still be better than anything else sub bs for pretty much all pve, and won't really have a missile competitor till cruise are fixed. Drake will be a bit less obviously better than all other long range bcs (tho hamdrake is sexed up). Nighthawk and cerberus will be more broken than now, but are due a major overhaul anyway. There are other tidbits like fury becoming more about short range pwnage of big stuff and precisions actually being useful.

If you were to change to amarr or gallente medium long range turrets you would find just how easy mode heavy missiles have been.



I haven't ignored anything, I was away from the game for almost this entire year and have not been able to keep up on current changes. I just recently started back into EVE and all of a sudden Expansion changes everywhere for me and it was a bit of an overload for me, which I do feel is fair that I ask others for help with my lack of current knowledge on upcoming events.
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