EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

Sure thing.

The winners of the Winners bracket play the winners of the Losers bracket. At this phase, we're still dealing with two double-elimination tournaments, so if the Losers dudes win the first match, they need to play again as that means the Winners guys have only lost once. However, if the Winners dudes win the first match then it's done, as the Losers guys will have lost twice.

That's how the two brackets resolve.

On the final day, the winners of both brackets play each other in a best of 5 to determine the tournament 1st and 2nd place. The losers of the last match of each bracket will play each other in a best of 3 to determine the tournament 3rd and 4th place finishers.

Some basic theory for you guys at CCP.

The double elimination format is effective because it reduces the impact of the random brackets by ensuring the best two teams make it into the final. Even if a top 2 team get prematurely knocked into the losers brackets they should win through there and then return to the finals. What would happen in a tournament run correctly is the left and right sides would continue to be run simultaneously as part of the same tournament knocking people down into the losers until the winner of the left and the winner of the right play each other. Whoever loses that would play the losers bracket champion to ensure that the two teams in the grand finals were the best 2. Then they go into the final with a one game deficit.

What you have done is created two unrelated tournaments and then a showmatch. The left hand side of the bracket produces a #1 and a #2 as does the right. Then you arrange a showmatch between the two #1s and the two #2s and then proclaim the loser of the #1s as the 2nd place finisher for the tournament as a whole. This is nonsense as if they came from the right hand side of the bracket then they never had anything to do with the left hand side, they could be way, way worse than the #2 from the left hand side. What you have done isn't a problem for us because rather than play Verge or Ronin or Hydra in a bo5 we instead get to play any of the right hand side guys but I think you ought to clarify what you're doing so people don't think this is an actual tournament. It's not, it's two unrelated tournaments and then a showmatch between two teams who have proved themselves in completely different and unrelated environments for laughs and $. Your format guarantees that two teams on the right hand side of the bracket will always achieve at least 2nd and 4th, regardless of whether or not they actually merit it because your format is an abomination which undermines everything the double elimination format attempts to achieve.

This is not a problem for us as if we win today then we only have to win 1 game with a game in hand against the best teams in the tournament in order to guarantee top 2 and a bo5 with some random incursion bears but it is possible that people misunderstood exactly how the format works. Also, although this is just me being cynical here, is it possible that whoever drew the brackets just drew them badly and you are trying to subsequently honour them for whatever reason? I can't imagine any reason why someone could be aware of double elimination and then run this mess instead, it seems much more likely that this is just like the time someone forgot to write "medal" in the prize of AT X and then it subsequently became enforced rather than just saying "my bad, that was an oversight".

Also is there any chance that you could explain how it's run on the stream today, we can't be the only people surprised to learn that it's actually two tournaments and then a misleadingly named showmatch.

Any chance you could clarify that it's two tournaments and a showmatch on the stream today so nobody gets confused. Unfortunately the College World Series has insufficient cultural weight to make it apparent what people are talking about when the words double elimination are misleadingly used.

What?

If you were that set on having a best of five for the final you could run a normal double elimination and just have the last two left do a best of 5. So instead of the team coming from the winners bracket having to only win once or the winner from the losers bracket having to win twice as is usual for the final matches in a double elimination you have your best of five.

Or you can use the version you are currently which ignores logic.

but you could have noticed that you put all top runners from the latest 2 alliance tournaments in one side and run your program once more?

I could have done that, but then we couldn't say with a straight face that seeding was random. It'd be random-except-if-we-have-some-problem-with-how-it-came-out.

You just roll the dice and live with what comes out, that's how it has to be if you're doin' randoms.

Other esports tournaments rig seeding to an extent. GSL (the biggest SC2 tournament) and the OSL (the biggest SC:BW tournament) have both done it. They don't admit it, but the evidence is there. Maybe you have a moral problem with doing it yourself, but there's no doubt that tweaking the brackets makes for a greater chance of a finals where the best two teams play each other.

Well, I'm still a little confused...

This is my attempt to interpret what the weekend will look like:

Day 1
Losers Bracket Deciders
match 1 - The Expendables vs XXX Mity
match 2 - Reputation Cartel vs Goggles

Resolving the Winners VS Losers Brackets
match 3 - R0Nin and Pixies vs Match 1 Winner
match 4 - Asine Hitama's Team vs Match 2 Winner
match 5 - The R0Nin vs Match 1 Winner (only if losers bracket team won first match)
match 6 - Asine Hitama's Team vs Match 2 Winner (only if losers bracket team won first match)

Day 2
3&4 place best of 3
match 7
match 8 - losers from matches 3/5 and 4/6
match 9

1&2 place best of 5
match 10
match 11
match 12 - winners from matches 3/5 and 4/6
match 13
match 14

Am I anywhere near right?