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Proteus, let's fix her.

Author
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
#1 - 2012-11-28 08:38:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Thaddeus Eggeras
Well, as the title implies this forum is about fixing the Proteus in a couple ways. The first is fixing it's subsystems so it's more on par with the other T3s, the second is the look of the ship.

To start I'd say the Proteus needs to get rid of the Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors, and have the Fuel Catalyst replace it. The other 3 have this subsystem, and I don't see why the Proteus shouldn't too.. This will help in PvE as well as PvP. The next issue is the Drone Synthesis Projector; why is the drone bandwidth 75 instead on 125? The Gila, and Ishtar both have 125 bandwidth, I don't see why this subsystem shouldn't be 125 too. I think with these two improvements done the Proteus would be a much better ship and be more with the other T3s

The other issue with the Proteus, is it's so damn ugly haha. I mean the Legion, Tengu, and Loki all can look either bad or look good depending on the subsystems you put on. The Proteus on the other hand just always looks bad, I don't understand this at all. I fully believe it needs a full redesign to the ship and all the subsystems.

Let me know what you think, and of any other improvements the Proteus could use, or any other of the T3s. The only other thing I think would help the Legion and Proteus, and even Loki I guess is a new armor repair amplifier module, but I'm not sure if that would overpower armor or just help it often.

~Thadd
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-11-28 08:48:09 UTC
There is absolutly nothing wrong with the Proteus,

It can do most things pretty well and it excells in others. It's the number 1 solo pirates ship, it's probably the best expoirer and it has a punch.

Where the Loki is the best PvP ship, the Tengu the best mission runner and it has a though 100mn PvP fit.

The only T3 that realy needs some looking in to is the Legion
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
#3 - 2012-11-28 08:57:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Thaddeus Eggeras
The Legion, Loki and Tengu all can be 100mn AB fit, the Proteus can not do this and have the type of speed the other 3 can. Also the Proteus is without a doubt the weakest of the 4. All 4 can be great exploring boats. The Loki and Tengu are both great PvP, and the Legion with the neuting subsystem isn't a bad PvP ship either if you fly her right.. The Proteus is an ok PvP ship with blasters but can't take any other the other 3 T3s. The Loki because it will just web and disrupt the Proteus and keep range. The Tengu because the Tengu has such a great tank again Kin/Therm, and can hit hard with HAMs, and still do ok with HM even after the patch. And the Legion just as to neut the Proteus and it's only weapon are it's drone which aren't hard to get rig of.

And for PvE the Tengu is the best, but most cost effective is the Legion with T1 crystals, you are always making 100% profit then because they never break. The Loki is a effect PvE ship too, hell the Proteus isn't a bad PvE ship but could really be much better with a Fuel catalyst and a 125 drone bandwidth.

Out of all of the T3s the Proteus is the weakest. And mostly because of those 2 subsystems. If you had the fuel catalyst it would be a much better, and stable boat, and able to fit a 100mn AB and have speed like the other. If you had a 125 drone bandwidth it would help it with PvE a lot, and prob some in PvP too. And all in all it's by far the ugliest still of the t3s though haha.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-11-28 09:31:28 UTC
therm Tank of the Tengu is it's second weakest as a base usualy the weakest overall becauce most caldari pilots patch up the EM hole.

Aside of all the things you try to point and show where other ships are better, you seem to surpass all the points where the Proteus is better than it's counter parts.

The Proteus does most damage and the thoughest tank you use it to sneak up at people tackle them and beat the crap out of them, it does that better than the Tengu or the Loki.

Sister Lumi
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-11-28 09:40:34 UTC
:D

1. Drone Proteus has 100 mbit/s bandwidth and does nearly same drone dps as Ishtar because it has more lows to fit DDAs

2. 100MN makes no sense with blasters

3. Proteus is the best AHAC in game right now for Guardian fleets and frankly nothing else comes even close, Fuel Catalyst would make it OP.

4. Yes, 3 out of 4 Proteus Electronic Subsystems (the ones that make the front of the ship) do indeed look terrible.

5. If you don't fit any means to fight capacitor warfare on a billion isk blaster ship, you shouldn't be flying one and maybe stick to L4s in a Drake instead

6. Try the Reactive Armor Hardener after patch

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#6 - 2012-11-28 12:11:32 UTC
You can get a cloaky proteus to around 570 DPS without going crazy on the pimp.

This can use a BLOPs portal.

If that isn't broken in a good way, you're doing it wrong.
Sister Lumi
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-11-28 12:28:59 UTC
^ that cloaky little munster can also have a medium neut and more EHP than your typical battleship, with more drones than you can kill in a week






Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-11-28 12:32:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
wait...wait....no..i couldnt have read that right....
at first i thought you are saying that the prot needs a buff...
wow, that actually is what youre saying :S

mate, prot is fkn awesome.
Localized Injectors is the single best prop mod on ANY t3.
no other T3 can match a prots dps and tank, its long point is very useful, it's by FAR the best cloaky T3.
seriously, i dont get it...

proteus not good for pvp?!?!?!?!?!
that tears it, you MUST be trolling...

PS: if anyone touches what my prot looks like, i will hunt them down.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#9 - 2012-11-28 13:27:08 UTC
Best Cloaky

Best small gang AHAC (Legion gets better in larger gangs)

Pretty much the only ship that can point at medium range (~80km) and not die when something coughs at it.


OP has clearly not flown the other T3s, loki often ends up with anaemic DPS, legion is pretty much terrible as anything other than a slightly better zealot, the neuting is fairly situational.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#10 - 2012-11-28 14:38:50 UTC
Can't properly fit BS prop

Must be broken

**** logic.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Fredy Furious
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-11-28 14:53:49 UTC
I love the proteus, but I have to agree, the best pvp setup looks very ugly.... the one with the bonus to warp disruptor... WTF is that... localized injector is ugly also... but my explorer Proteus is kinda cool I think.

But best looking proteus is with

nanobot injector
Hybrid Propulsion Armature or Covert Reconfiguration
Dissolution Sequencer
Supplemental Coolant Injector
Interdiction Nullifier

this way it looks badass, but stat wise.. it's poor...
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#12 - 2012-11-28 16:03:55 UTC
The only bit I agree with is that yeah the Proteus is ugly as hell when using the "standard" PVP subs otherwise it doesn't really need a buff
It'sNotMyFaultYourMother ThrewYouAway
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
Proteus is in many ways my favorite T3. And stuff such as the 100 vs 125 Bandwidth for drones is EXACTLY how T2 vs T3 should be! If anything every other T3 should be modelled after the Proteus!
Eternal Error
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-11-28 16:24:35 UTC
wat
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#15 - 2012-11-28 16:27:43 UTC
Loki needs love more than a proteus (it's EW subsystem doesn't add any mid slots, what?!) and the laser-legion needs some love too (it's actually quite sick in HAM configuration...)

Proteus is on par with the tengu in terms of how good it is. The tengu's abilities are getting nurfed with OGB changes and HML changes. Once these change, things will seem less crazy.

All i can say is: Try and fly a loki.

It doesnt have enough mids to shield tank while using webs
It doesnt have enough low slots to armor tank while maintaining damage
Can't take advantage of it's speed without shield tanking (This refers to the first point).

So here are the options:

Damage - Tank - Mobility - Tackle - Covert

As a proteus you can get 2 of these in the extreme with certain fits, 3 of these with strong fits and 4 of these in above average fits (compared to HAC's/Recons)

In the Loki you can never get 4, 3 if your being mediocre, or 2 relatively strong.

So either the proteus is OP or the Loki is bad.

I fly both gallente and minmatar btw - so i will happily use the best of the 2... so that means the proteus.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
#16 - 2012-11-28 18:10:36 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:
therm Tank of the Tengu is it's second weakest as a base usualy the weakest overall becauce most caldari pilots patch up the EM hole.

Aside of all the things you try to point and show where other ships are better, you seem to surpass all the points where the Proteus is better than it's counter parts.

The Proteus does most damage and the thoughest tank you use it to sneak up at people tackle them and beat the crap out of them, it does that better than the Tengu or the Loki.



Ok, it's easy to see you know little of Tengus and Caldari. Therm isn't it's second lowest resist, Explo is. Therm/Kin are it's highest resist in shields even with the EM patched up. It doesn't do better DPS or range then a Tengu, I HAM Tengu can do 850-900DPS at ranges over 20km. Loki can do 600--700DPS at around the same ranges and web it's prey.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
#17 - 2012-11-28 18:17:16 UTC
Sister Lumi wrote:
:D

1. Drone Proteus has 100 mbit/s bandwidth and does nearly same drone dps as Ishtar because it has more lows to fit DDAs

2. 100MN makes no sense with blasters

3. Proteus is the best AHAC in game right now for Guardian fleets and frankly nothing else comes even close, Fuel Catalyst would make it OP.

4. Yes, 3 out of 4 Proteus Electronic Subsystems (the ones that make the front of the ship) do indeed look terrible.

5. If you don't fit any means to fight capacitor warfare on a billion isk blaster ship, you shouldn't be flying one and maybe stick to L4s in a Drake instead

6. Try the Reactive Armor Hardener after patch



A 100mn would use rails and could disrupt it's prey and move from it, or around it as it slowly took it out at range.

A 125 mbit/s bandwidth makes more since because of the Ishtar and Gila having them. And in Guardian fleet Proteus aren't the main ship, Zealots, or armor BSs. Living in 0.0 space and being in a war I have NEVER seen a Proteus in a CTA or any fleet for that matter. Tengus you see a lot, Lokis sometimes, Zealots a lot, and armor BSs.

It isn't just the front of the Proteus that's ugly, it's all of it.

The Proteus also is an alright rail PvE ship, but with 125 mbit/s bandwidth
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#18 - 2012-11-28 18:36:11 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
A 125 mbit/s bandwidth makes more since because of the Ishtar and Gila having them


There are a lot of off-the-wall assertions here (seriously, the Proteus is a great ship and if you haven't figured out how to use one, try harder) but this one deserves special attention. Remember how T3s are supposed to be flexible generalists while T2s (and faction) are supposed to be specialists? The bandwidth balance is exactly how that should look in practice.

A Proteus with 125gb bandwidth would be hands down the best drone boat in the game due to the massive number of lows available. As is, it's a competitive drone boat that can carry other tricks up its sleeve. It's perfect as is.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-11-29 01:24:14 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:
therm Tank of the Tengu is it's second weakest as a base usualy the weakest overall becauce most caldari pilots patch up the EM hole



erm, base ship resist +skills WITHOUT specific +resist sub, you fit it with 1 DCU 1 Em+Invuln hardeners it's explo the second hole after Em, thermal and kin are the highest native resists on this ship and these get way above 85% when the others are under 80%.

So sry, you did a huge mistake here and I can't really understand the point you're trying to make.
All T3's are more or less good in specific areas however you have Loki/Tengu being quite versatile and thus preferred over ships requiring the same top skills and isk effort in fits but still being exclusive as game play and offering a smaller window of engagements or opportunities.

Proteus could use of a lot of tweaks to become more useful in other circumstances than in wh's with bonus making those better, other circumstances than heavy tackle in fleets surrounded by half a dozen of guardians and the over exciting game play running around cloack with a 2+B cloack fit just to spot lone missioners/anom runners, this looks as exciting as mining, but some dudes like it.

Simple answer: train them all, don't bother with wow like balances and pick the best at the moment for whatever you intend to do with.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Derath Ellecon
Lotek Academy
#20 - 2012-11-29 01:32:56 UTC
It'sNotMyFaultYourMother ThrewYouAway wrote:
Proteus is in many ways my favorite T3. And stuff such as the 100 vs 125 Bandwidth for drones is EXACTLY how T2 vs T3 should be! If anything every other T3 should be modelled after the Proteus!



Well said.

Of all of the T2 vs T3 cruiser arguments, Gallente IMHO has it the best overall balanced.

The drone bandwith pretty much keeps the Ishtar a better Drone HAC.
The Deimos could use a little love. But otherwise IMHO this is the only area that needs work.
As for the others, there isn't really huge overlap. As a command ship, well that's getting addressed already. Recon, the T2 does it better. And same for logi.

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