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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Protecting Our Newbies
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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-11-25 17:59:21 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Now I understand your sudden hostility :)


Nothing hostile about it.

It's just that you give your own opinion about something and you use your OWN experience in it to make your biased opinion.

Sure the Buddy Invite offer will be used to create alts by other players. But to say that ALMOST ALL new players are alts of other players is just guess work and you don't have any real fact to prove that.

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Keno Skir
#42 - 2012-11-25 18:15:39 UTC
I would suggest J'Poll that at least "the majority" of buddy trials are used by existing players.

I'd prefer it if buddy trials were gone forever, even though i make money from them.

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#43 - 2012-11-25 18:18:51 UTC
At the same time your proof is based on the buddy invites you hand out, which ofcourse by definition are going to be new players (or ones who lack the knowledge or isk needed for the plex) :)

If you make an alt and join a random corp that accepts newbies, you'll find that many players who claim to be new have some weird and unexplainable knowledge on eve at times, ie alts. Alts left and right. You'll also find that, mysteriously, a VERY large portion of those "new" players go AWOL after 50ish days so they're not trials, and the chance of someone buying it for one month and THEN give up on it isn't that huge.

There's tons and tons of buddy alts going around, why do you think CCP is putting in the effort to plug the hole if it wasn't a problem?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#44 - 2012-11-25 18:29:37 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Malcanis' Law

"Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of 'new players', that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players."


Bingo


And what that means is that we SHOULDN'T make specific stuff for newbies, partly because this is eve and they're better off getting used to it right away and partly because it'll be (ab)used by the older players anyway.


Poetic's goodpost does not contravene my little law. He's not suggesting a mechanics change, but a cultural change, and I wholeheartedly endorse it.

PS, your post won't get the distribution it deserves - send it in for publication on TheMittani - it'll reach many more of its intended audience there.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-11-25 22:23:36 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
PS, your post won't get the distribution it deserves - send it in for publication on TheMittani - it'll reach many more of its intended audience there.
If they're interested in the post ... they can send me an evemail. Or you can write your own take on the issue, Mal, and link to this hear thread as your inspiration. :)
Jack MacBastard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-11-26 14:21:57 UTC
As a totally new player, this post is encouraging.
Lyric Lahnder
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-11-26 15:15:32 UTC
Eve helps those who help themselves.

Most pvpers are good natured enough that if they killed a new player and the new player convoed them and in place of tears said:
"Hey man I fitted webs and scrams and tank and I still lost in that duel. What did I do wrong?"
They would have the decency to take the new player through there paces. A lot of people found there first corps that way.

Most players who help other players myself included are looking for a general spark of interest, either through the new player doing homework on there own or simply asking the right questions.

Unfortunately most of the players we loose in that first critical week are un win able. There is no amount of coddling we or ccp can do to keep them around. It simply comes from a lack of interest in learning something new, and lets face it, no one wants a stick in the mud in there corp anyways so it turns out that mechanism might be a good thing. Within that population of people who simply dont want to have to "learn" in playing a new game, there is a small percentage within that are willing to learn and are overwhelmed, some of them will keep plugging along until they get the help they need, others will dub the challenge not worth the time and effort, I try to keep these people around by answering questions here, and when im mucking around on my industry alt, stay logged into the help channel and try to answer as many questions as possible and when people ask for a convo for one on one help never turn them aside until they've gotten the info they need.

In the end those who have general interest in learning things usually find the help they need in this game lost ships or no.
Outside of EVE uni and dedicated player training organizations i believe this forum and the help channel prove that there is a dedicated group of players within the community willing to train and not troll new players. Most of the trolls in this forum actually dedicate themselves to pissing off the established players answering questions here, not trying to anger the new players.

Lets face it. Isk isnt the resource in this game its time. The time spent by players achieving goals. Without players to invest that time you cant achieve those goals. I think the trainers will beat out the trolls because in the end people dedicating there time to this game in various ways is what drives progress not tear extraction(as fun as that might be).

If you are a new player with genuine desire to learn you will go far in eve regardless of how many ships you might loose to griefers and trolls. Its how you carry yourself and treat others, its not how they treat you.

Noir. and Noir Academy are recruiting apply at www.noirmercs.com I Noir Academy: 60 days old must be able to fly at least one tech II frigate. I Noir. Recruits: 4:1 k/d ratio and can fly tech II cruisers.
Veda Idama
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-11-26 16:41:02 UTC
I don't know if this will help but I wanted to give a little perspective as a new player of just over a month

I have really appreciated having freedom in playing this game. I want to know the rules but I don't want to know how to play. I don't mind looking for information and I don't like be spoon fed.

I have lost ships, I have never killed anyone in PVP and I'm ok with that. It's just part of the learning curve for me and there is more than enough impetus to carry on learning. I've been blown up by concord and sentry guns and loved every minute of it.

I do find the game daunting at times but it just means more to discover. The community have been great and that was from only one forum post and a few messages in rookie chat. Will there be trolls? Yes. Will there be older games rolling their eyes? Yes but that's with any game.

I left other MMOs to find a game with meaningful pvp not isolated to an arena or court and for the moment, I've found it. To be honest, I don't think I could go back to other MMOs after experiencing EVE, even if it's just been a drop.

It's not a game for everyone and maybe that's ok. I got the chance to download and trial the game and I got a tutorial. That's all I really expected as an introduction. Just a chance to play in the sand with everyone else.

This will probably make you lau,gh but when I saw a CCP person in the rookie chat, it blew my mind. There wasn't a wall between developer and gamer like they're on some distant planet. I really appreciated that.

You have a new gamer here and I hope to stay and learn more.

Veda






[i]dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraḿ yauvanaḿ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati[/i]
Keno Skir
#49 - 2012-11-26 18:17:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
I really liked both previous posts here.

Lyric Lahnder wrote:
Most players who help other players myself included are looking for a general spark of interest, either through the new player doing homework on there own or simply asking the right questions.

If you are a new player with genuine desire to learn you will go far in eve regardless of how many ships you might loose to griefers and trolls. Its how you carry yourself and treat others, its not how they treat you.



And Veda you have absolutely the correct attitude, get in touch if you need anything.

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Veda Idama
Doomheim
#50 - 2012-11-27 10:15:22 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
And Veda you have absolutely the correct attitude, get in touch if you need anything.


Just knowledge and a chance to use it. That's all

[i]dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraḿ yauvanaḿ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati[/i]
Christy D Floyd
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-11-27 14:49:21 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
I cannot see myself leaving EVE unless CCP does something monumentally stupid, like turning highsec into a nearly PvP-free zone.
(cont'd)



Stopped reading after this. If you want to pvp goto low or null sec Im sure there are plenty of targets to shoot at.

Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.
Valken Xavros
This Is Ours
#52 - 2012-11-27 15:22:38 UTC
As a new player, i was told that the eve motto was: Here's a ship, F*** you.

I took that to heart, I've played games like Day Z where you lose all your stuff on death, So i came into eve already thinking that everything i own is temporary. Sure I'll probably get a little pissed when my ship eventually gets blown up or i get podded, but it's not going to make me quit.

With that said, i look forward to learning more about the game and i already have a few veteran eve gamers that have been helping me learn the game, i appreciate their help and look forward to giving back to the community once i get more experience.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#53 - 2012-11-27 19:06:09 UTC
Christy D Floyd wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
I cannot see myself leaving EVE unless CCP does something monumentally stupid, like turning highsec into a nearly PvP-free zone.
(cont'd)



Stopped reading after this. If you want to pvp goto low or null sec Im sure there are plenty of targets to shoot at.


Why, high sec is part of the eve universe and thus part of the pvp zone.
S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2012-11-27 19:33:42 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Christy D Floyd wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
I cannot see myself leaving EVE unless CCP does something monumentally stupid, like turning highsec into a nearly PvP-free zone.
(cont'd)



Stopped reading after this. If you want to pvp goto low or null sec Im sure there are plenty of targets to shoot at.


Why, high sec is part of the eve universe and thus part of the pvp zone.


Problem is not about PvP zones.
Is just that who wants to shoot people in high sec wants to do it because most of the time the locals are target practice :)
I guess the point was something like: "if you want PvP where the target will shoot back, go to low or null".

Now, my opinion is that highsec is too big... way too big.
Each empire should only have one region as high sec.

The rest should be low and null.
This way, high sec will be very crowded which will make people move out to low or null.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-11-27 21:45:44 UTC
S'No Flake wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Christy D Floyd wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
I cannot see myself leaving EVE unless CCP does something monumentally stupid, like turning highsec into a nearly PvP-free zone.
(cont'd)



Stopped reading after this. If you want to pvp goto low or null sec Im sure there are plenty of targets to shoot at.


Why, high sec is part of the eve universe and thus part of the pvp zone.


Problem is not about PvP zones.
Is just that who wants to shoot people in high sec wants to do it because most of the time the locals are target practice :)
I guess the point was something like: "if you want PvP where the target will shoot back, go to low or null".

Now, my opinion is that highsec is too big... way too big.
Each empire should only have one region as high sec.

The rest should be low and null.
This way, high sec will be very crowded which will make people move out to low or null.


I doubt that.

I think most will just don't play anymore.

Those who want low/null will move there out of their themself. People who are forced there will just don't play anymore.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Madyson Tyrus
Doomheim
#56 - 2012-11-27 22:24:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Madyson Tyrus
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:


Well, first of all, your organization is famous for recruitment scams. I like the idea but let's not make believe the goons are new player friendly.

Most people that leave in the first few days leave because there is no way to grind critters to reach a level cap, when you ask for help you're usually presented with reading materials, no respawn button and loss penalties and last but not least no imagination or social graces. I have quite a few friends who have tried this game and they were the reasons other than the chick that didn't like the click-to-move mechanics and she couldn't pick the color of the ship.... she was also looking for dance emotes in the captain's quarters ya think we should add those?


Just wanted to comment on the bold here.

I know it is standard procedure to viciously insult anyone who doesn't regard EVE as god's gift to videogaming, perfect and flawless, but allow me to tell you why I never stuck with the game.

I've tried EVE a few times, never stuck with it. Why? Simple, because I got bored, and I did not feel I was doing anything meaningful.

I felt like I was just flying around aimlessly, I had no assets to work with, and little to no social interaction. That last part is the most important. The Universe felt empty to me. Yes, the standard response to that is "Join a Corp" " Go to Nullsec". But realistically, a 5-10 day old player is not READY, mentally, financially, or skillpoint-wise, to even go to Low-sec, let alone Nullsec. So that left me with what, Mining and Ratting in .7 or .6, by myself for days on end? Which turned out to be terribly boring.

and a 5-10 day old player knows absolutely nothing about Corporations and which one to join. You end up joining and leaving, joining and leaving because the Corps are either dead, unhelpful, anti-social, or full of jerks. Joining a Corp should not be a frivilous thing, it is a major decision in your playing time. It shouldn't be taken lightly, imo, and the tools should be there to make a truly informed decision. Years ago, they were not. Maybe they are there now. I dunno, i just started up again.

I keep coming back to EVE to try it, because I love the Universe, I love the concept behind the game, the ruthlessness, the sandbox, all of that. I don't want to be given ships, or money, or anything. I just want some social interaction beyond Rookie Help, and a sense that I'm doing something worthwhile and meaningful with my game time.

side note: I really hated the point-and-click flying, and I found the combat boring, but I'm not so much opposed to it nowadays, and the Combat, i dunno what they changed in the last few years since i last played, but it seems alot more fun and engaging, TO ME, than it did in previous trials I did. so thats a good thing, for me.
Madyson Tyrus
Doomheim
#57 - 2012-11-27 22:27:02 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Christy D Floyd wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
I cannot see myself leaving EVE unless CCP does something monumentally stupid, like turning highsec into a nearly PvP-free zone.
(cont'd)



Stopped reading after this. If you want to pvp goto low or null sec Im sure there are plenty of targets to shoot at.


Why, high sec is part of the eve universe and thus part of the pvp zone.


Problem is not about PvP zones.
Is just that who wants to shoot people in high sec wants to do it because most of the time the locals are target practice :)
I guess the point was something like: "if you want PvP where the target will shoot back, go to low or null".

Now, my opinion is that highsec is too big... way too big.
Each empire should only have one region as high sec.

The rest should be low and null.
This way, high sec will be very crowded which will make people move out to low or null.


I doubt that.

I think most will just don't play anymore.

Those who want low/null will move there out of their themself. People who are forced there will just don't play anymore.


agreed. This is supposed to be a Sandbox, a game of Choice and Options.

it goes against the very concept, to try and force people to play the game your way, and in the zones you want them to play in. that only leads down the path to the Themepark Side.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-11-27 22:28:28 UTC
Madyson Tyrus wrote:
Agreed. This is supposed to be a Sandbox, a game of Choice and Options.

it goes against the very concept, to try and force people to play the game your way, and in the zones you want them to play in. that only leads down the path to the Themepark Side.
If people want to play in highsec, more power to them. As long as they understand that it's not completely safe nor should it be completely safe.
Madyson Tyrus
Doomheim
#59 - 2012-11-27 22:31:17 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Madyson Tyrus wrote:
Agreed. This is supposed to be a Sandbox, a game of Choice and Options.

it goes against the very concept, to try and force people to play the game your way, and in the zones you want them to play in. that only leads down the path to the Themepark Side.
If people want to play in highsec, more power to them. As long as they understand that it's not completely safe nor should it be completely safe.


absolutely.
Madyson Tyrus
Doomheim
#60 - 2012-11-27 22:34:13 UTC
As a Newbie, the most I want/expect from veteran players is a bit of advice in regards to whatever I am doing. you know "hey, i got this idea for this, this, and this, will it work?" You can provide all the reading material and links you want, but nothing beats practical experience. You guys have it, I don't. So share that experience. it's not hand-holding. Its passing on knowledge.

Hand-holding would be giving me a fully fitted ship, and a couple billion isk. thats not what I want. what I want is advice on how to best fit my self-bought ship for the purpose I need it for, so i can make my own billions.