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Mining Question
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Wyntyr Frost
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-11-27 19:44:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Wyntyr Frost
Hi All,

Pretty new player here, played for about 3 months back in 08 and just got back into it this month. I've been trying my hand at mining and have a couple of questions.
I'm currently flying a retriever with 2 T2 Strip miners, 2 mining laser upgrade 1's and a co-processor 1.

Is there any way to increase the yield per cycle? I get about 1200 units per cycles so it takes a bit over 18 cycles to fill my hold.

Thanks for any responses.

EDIT: Thought of something else

How about reducing the cycle time? Any way to do that?
Isu Okaski
The Break Room
#2 - 2012-11-27 20:04:22 UTC
The T1 Strips will get better yield than T2 Strips unless you have crystals for your T2 Strips. So either get crystals for your T2 Strips or switch back to T1 Strips to boost yield.

You should have Mining Laser Upgrade II's. They are very quick to train and boost your yield.

Instead of using a Co-Processor module in your low slot use a Processor Overclocking rig to boost your CPU...Then you can put another MLU in your newly free low slot. However, if you switch back to T1 Strips you might not even need the extra CPU to begin with.

Mining Drones, use them. Especially in a Retriever, put the drones on the closest rock to you to save flight time. If you are flying solo you may need to consider using combat drones for rats but keep in mind you are taking a yield hit.

Get your Mining Barge and Mining skills up.


[Retriever, Yield Test]

Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Survey Scanner II

Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Mining Drone II x5


This fit can pull over 80,000m3 of ore per hour with perfect skills.
Wyntyr Frost
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-11-27 20:36:33 UTC
Thanks! Swapping to the strip miner 1's nearly doubled the units per cycle! I have orders in for the other items.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-11-27 20:52:27 UTC
Wyntyr Frost wrote:
Hi All,

Pretty new player here, played for about 3 months back in 08 and just got back into it this month. I've been trying my hand at mining and have a couple of questions.
I'm currently flying a retriever with 2 T2 Strip miners, 2 mining laser upgrade 1's and a co-processor 1.

Is there any way to increase the yield per cycle? I get about 1200 units per cycles so it takes a bit over 18 cycles to fill my hold.

Thanks for any responses.

EDIT: Thought of something else

How about reducing the cycle time? Any way to do that?


Train for T2 mining crystals ASAP. It should only take you like 1 1/2 day for T2 veldspar crystals, which will increase your yield way over strip miner I's.

Train mining laser upgrades to IV so you can use mining laser upgrade II's. Get rid of the co-processor and get a 3rd mining laser. This will increase your yield by 13%.

Train cybernetics to level IV (I think its IV) and buy the 3% mining yield implant. The're pretty cheap these days (30 million isk?). Or you can buy them from an LP store and save some isk if you do missions.


You can also always ask in local if an orca will give you mining boosts, or join a corp that runs mining ops. This will normally be 30% - 50% boost in yield.
Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#5 - 2012-11-27 20:54:39 UTC
don't forget about mining implants and boosts. there's a mining implant that improves yield by 1%, 3% & 5%. i think its called highwall something or other. the 5% variant is pretty expensive but the 3% can be had for 18 mill or so. not too bad if you don't go getting podded too quickly.

also having another char boost your mining can also improve your yield. both the orca or rorqual have mining bonuses for boosting miners, and if they use T2 mining links with a mindlink implant, you should notice a decent improvement in cycle time. gl.
Isu Okaski
The Break Room
#6 - 2012-11-27 21:13:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Isu Okaski
Styth spiting wrote:
Wyntyr Frost wrote:
Hi All,

Pretty new player here, played for about 3 months back in 08 and just got back into it this month. I've been trying my hand at mining and have a couple of questions.
I'm currently flying a retriever with 2 T2 Strip miners, 2 mining laser upgrade 1's and a co-processor 1.

Is there any way to increase the yield per cycle? I get about 1200 units per cycles so it takes a bit over 18 cycles to fill my hold.

Thanks for any responses.

EDIT: Thought of something else

How about reducing the cycle time? Any way to do that?


Train for T2 mining crystals ASAP. It should only take you like 1 1/2 day for T2 veldspar crystals, which will increase your yield way over strip miner I's.

Train mining laser upgrades to IV so you can use mining laser upgrade II's. Get rid of the co-processor and get a 3rd mining laser. This will increase your yield by 13%.

Train cybernetics to level IV (I think its IV) and buy the 3% mining yield implant. The're pretty cheap these days (30 million isk?). Or you can buy them from an LP store and save some isk if you do missions.


You can also always ask in local if an orca will give you mining boosts, or join a corp that runs mining ops. This will normally be 30% - 50% boost in yield.



Honestly, mining crystals should be the last thing a miner should train. They can be quite skill intensive because they are asteroid specific. So in order to get an overall boost to your mining you need all T2 crystals and that takes a long time.

They are a good long term goal but your yield boost per training time ratio is much better training for other things. Train Mining Barge, Mining, and Mining Upgrades first. Then get T2 mining drones and TRAIN DRONE INTERFACING TO AT LEAST 4!! Increases Mining Drone Yield 20% with each level...Very important!

After all of that is done consider getting into an exhumer or getting T2 crystals. If you are mining solo in high sec I would suggest the T2 crystals first. Exhumers are gank targets. If you get into a solid Indy corp that has potential to move to low/null I woul get an exhumer. When mining areas with more than the typical 4-5 types of roids like in high sec crystals can be a blessing and a curse. First, in a hulk or covetor, you can't fit enough in your cargo hold. And second, it requires A LOT of training time to be able to use all of the crystals you will need. In my opinion should be the last thing a miner trains as it is VERY SPECIALIZED.

My $.02
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-11-27 22:02:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Styth spiting
Isu Okaski wrote:
Styth spiting wrote:
Wyntyr Frost wrote:
Hi All,

Pretty new player here, played for about 3 months back in 08 and just got back into it this month. I've been trying my hand at mining and have a couple of questions.
I'm currently flying a retriever with 2 T2 Strip miners, 2 mining laser upgrade 1's and a co-processor 1.

Is there any way to increase the yield per cycle? I get about 1200 units per cycles so it takes a bit over 18 cycles to fill my hold.

Thanks for any responses.

EDIT: Thought of something else

How about reducing the cycle time? Any way to do that?


Train for T2 mining crystals ASAP. It should only take you like 1 1/2 day for T2 veldspar crystals, which will increase your yield way over strip miner I's.

Train mining laser upgrades to IV so you can use mining laser upgrade II's. Get rid of the co-processor and get a 3rd mining laser. This will increase your yield by 13%.

Train cybernetics to level IV (I think its IV) and buy the 3% mining yield implant. The're pretty cheap these days (30 million isk?). Or you can buy them from an LP store and save some isk if you do missions.


You can also always ask in local if an orca will give you mining boosts, or join a corp that runs mining ops. This will normally be 30% - 50% boost in yield.



Honestly, mining crystals should be the last thing a miner should train. They can be quite skill intensive because they are asteroid specific. So in order to get an overall boost to your mining you need all T2 crystals and that takes a long time.

They are a good long term goal but your yield boost per training time ratio is much better training for other things. Train Mining Barge, Mining, and Mining Upgrades first. Then get T2 mining drones and TRAIN DRONE INTERFACING TO AT LEAST 4!! Increases Mining Drone Yield 20% with each level...Very important!

After all of that is done consider getting into an exhumer or getting T2 crystals. If you are mining solo in high sec I would suggest the T2 crystals first. Exhumers are gank targets. If you get into a solid Indy corp that has potential to move to low/null I woul get an exhumer. When mining areas with more than the typical 4-5 types of roids like in high sec crystals can be a blessing and a curse. First, in a hulk or covetor, you can't fit enough in your cargo hold. And second, it requires A LOT of training time to be able to use all of the crystals you will need. In my opinion should be the last thing a miner trains as it is VERY SPECIALIZED.

My $.02


I totally disagree with you. Once a player gets into a mining barge T2 crystals is the best choice for increasing your hourly yield. Yes they are ore specific but in highsec this isn't an issue because you'll re limited to 5 ores per region anyways.


MSMII adds about 12% increase in yield over strip miner I's. You can also train 3 T2 crystals in 3 days, which includes 19 hours of refining training. MSMII requires Mining V so there is no additional training required for it. In fact training for both MSMII and T2 mining crystals is a very natural training direction after a retriever. Waiting to train some T2 crystals until after mining drones II + drone interfacing IV (10 - 11 days) or exhumers (20-25 days) is just a huge waste for 20 hours of training for 12% yield increase.

Mining drones I with drone interfacing IV will add on average 140m3/minute to your yield. Mining drones II will add about 240m3/minute. While the mining drones II yield is great, it is just about equal to the yield gains over strip I's and MSMII's + mining drone I's. In fact training 3 T2 crystals + MLUII will take 6 days training which will out yield mining drones II saving you 4 - 5 days training.

Also a Retriever using MSMII + t2 crystals will out yield a Mackinaw using strip miner I's by 7,860m3 /hour, and that's with exhumers V, saving you 35+ days training.

Basically what I'm saying is a retriever with MSMII + MLUII + mining drones I will yield more m3/hour then a mackinaw + mining drones II + MLUII + strip miners, and saves you 50 days training time.


Also in regards to the OP. He can train a T2 mining crystal (veldspar, scordite, pyro) in about 19 hours time each. Training 1 of these, then training for MLUII would be the best solution based on his allready trained skills. Then drone interfacing IV, mining drones II, additional mining crystals he may want (Kernite takes 6 days, but forces refining V, 4 days which he needs anyways) and then finally finish barges V and go towards an exhumer.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-11-27 23:51:36 UTC
I decided to add onto my previous response, including all the theory crafting.

Using EFT and Evemon based on a generic basic character (standard starting skills) and required retriever skills.

Also assuming the following skills:
drones IV
mining drones IV
mining V
no refining skills
Strip miner I
MLUI
drone hauling time is ignored, no boosts, no implants.





Barge without crystals
Quote:
971m3 - Strip miner I + MLUI + 4 mining drone I
1077m3 - 3d 12h - MLUII
1095m3 - 5d 19h - drones V
1162m3 - 9d 10h - Mining drones V
1255m3 - 0d 17h - Drone interfacing
1299m3 - 1d 21h - Astrology IV
1343m3 - 10d 17h - AStrology V
1343m3 - 21d 16h - mining barge V
1386m3 - 4d 12h - Exhumers IV (now in mackinaw)



Barge with crystals
Quote:
971m3 - Strip miner I + MLUI + 4 mining drone I
1120m3 - 1d 16h - MSMII + crystal 1d 16h
1245m3 - 3d 12h - MLUII
1245m3 - 0d 19h - pyro miing crystal II
1245m3 - 0d 19h - scor miing crystal II
1296m3 - 1d 21h - Astrology IV
1347m3 - 10d 17h Astrology V
1347m3 - 5d 19h - drones V
1390m3 - 0d 17h - drone interfacing III
1525m3 - 9d 10h - mining drone oper V (mining drones II)
1556m3 - 4d 5h - drone interfacing IV
1556m3 - 21d 16h - Mining barge V
1576m3 - 4d 12h - Exhumers IV (Now in a mackinaw)



Random comparison of time trained

5th day
without crystals: 1077m3
With crystals: 1245m3

10th day
without crystals: 1095m3
With crystals: 1296

On the 19th day
without crystals: 1255m3
With crystals: 1347m3


on the 30th day
without crystals: 1343
With crystals: 1390 (halfway though drone interfacing IV, so really 1450m3)

With exhumers (mackinaw)
without crystals: 1386m3
With crystals: 1576m3


So as you can see, at no point does skipping the basic T2 mining crystals do you yield more isk/minute, and this is assuming zero hauling time with drones. Even with the additional time spent training additional highsec mining crystals (plag, or kernite, omber, etc basically 3 additional days) based on your region of space will you yield less isk/minute or hour training any other combination of skills before hand.
Musashi Date
#9 - 2012-11-28 06:50:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Musashi Date
Another incentive for training T2 crystals is that the miner can choose to refine his ores because with a corp standing of 6.67, you'll reach 100% refine rate for that specific ore. And at 100% mineral conversion, you'll expect a 6~10% increase bump in your income as you shift trading from ores to minerals. And I highly encourage miners to aim for/move into mineral trading.

@Styth
Kudos for spending alot of effort/time putting up figures in most of your replies, most appreciated.

Edit: Try Isk Per Hour, a third party program that has this calculations for Mining, check out the link below.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63663&find=unread
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-11-28 18:06:09 UTC
Musashi Date wrote:
Another incentive for training T2 crystals is that the miner can choose to refine his ores because with a corp standing of 6.67, you'll reach 100% refine rate for that specific ore. And at 100% mineral conversion, you'll expect a 6~10% increase bump in your income as you shift trading from ores to minerals. And I highly encourage miners to aim for/move into mineral trading.

@Styth
Kudos for spending alot of effort/time putting up figures in most of your replies, most appreciated.

Edit: Try Isk Per Hour, a third party program that has this calculations for Mining, check out the link below.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63663&find=unread



Thanks Musashi, it's always good to know someones reads my walls of text from time to time lol.

And Musashi is absolutely correct. 2 of the best ways to increase how much isk you make from mining is to not sell your un-refined ores, and to process your own ores with 0 waste, and 0 taken by the NPC station corp. And since T2 crystals are all heavily tied to the refining skills by simply training to refine your own ores unlocks all the highsec T2 mining crystals. For example Kernite mining crystals II takes 6d 12h to train (requires refining V) compared to the basic T2 mining crystals (veld, pyro, scor, etc) which only requires refining IV. But once you have refining V the T2 kernite crystals only take 1d 15h.